Ken_Potts

You could put runners on swimmer and sail on or off the ice

I'd like to find a good place to put a small motor too. I think you'd pretty much have to have the motor first to see how small an opening you could twist it through. Somewhere (probably through one of these postings) I've seen a photo of a small sailboat that has a trolling motor built into the lazarette in such a way that you open the hatch and the motor swings out and over the gunwhale into the water at the side of the stern. That would be a neat thing to do but it would require a huge hatch. I still haven't solved the outboard motor storage problem yet so I'll probably end up getting the lightest motor I can find and just tying it down somewhere Hmm... Here's a wacky idea - Instead of putting the hatch on the deck or the bulkhead, maybe a flush hatch in the hull side would work for a slide-out outboard (the motor slides out prop first then swings down into the water). I don't think I'm going to try that one anytime soon...

Howard, I think I'm seeing the same pinholes that you do. I've always assumed that it was either common to all epoxy (although I've only used West) or due to my self-taught mixing/application techniques. I don't have any worthwhile input I just wanted to chime in as someone who's had similar results. I'll have to take more notice in the future of when the bubbles are better or worse. Unfortunately I'm pretty much shut down for the winter on the boat project so it'll be a while.

I'm building hatches into the fore and aft decks. I thought long and hard about putting the hatches in the bulkheads. I decided not to put the forepeak hatch into the foreward bulkhead because I then wouldn't be able to use the front area of the cockpit (under the deck) as a place to put stuff while camping (I don't want to dig everything out just to get into the forepeak). I decided to put the lazarette hatch on the deck instead of the bulkhead for no good reason really. I still think the aft bulkhead is a good place for the hatch even though I didn't do it. A while back someone on this forum mentioned a nice way to hold the hatches closed that I'm planning on using - Attach bungee cord inside the locker and put a hook on the inside of the hatch. To open the hatch you just pull it up and stretch the bungee cord until you can get a hand in to unhook it from the hatch. If you do it this way it's probably a good idea to keep the attachment point of the bungee as far as you can from the hook on the hatch. That way there's a longer stretch available... I'm not sure I said that clearly. If you'd like a good visual guide of where the water goes when the boat goes over take a look at this thread http://www.messing-about.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2969&sid=c058dd8f347bc34cf1a560eb2a40c4f2 The pictures of the capsize test show the hatches staying pretty well out of the water in a knock down. If the boat turtles I would guess that a leaky hatch wouldn't be too catastrophic because the air would be trapped in the hull anyway (I'll be shocked if I ever get my boat all the way upside down, too). Congrats on your new project - It's a fun one.

That's a good idea. I've seen some similar sheds. Do you have a dock to build it on? Would you have to be able to walk into it or could you maybe just build a bottomless wood box off the side of the dock? Then the boat would raise up out of the water and the weather but you wouldn't need a whole building.

I was thinking about stretching a bungee net across the space and using the space for lifejackets or drybags holding whatever won't fit through the hatches (camping gear?) Has anyone been able to use that space (modified) for a little outboard motor?

Beautiful pictures - but please, Oyster! Don't rush to judgement! If this is truly a fun thread I would like to submit an entry of a boat (the execution, not the design) to NOT emulate (Don't worry, it's mine so I'm not making fun of anyone else). I just need to dig up the cd...

Konrad, thank you - That was great! One of the things I really love about this boat forum is that it's not just boats I'm childless so I can't really say I've been there but there was the time that my friend's kid (my favorite little boy who shall remain nameless in case he ever runs for president) was running around au natural while mommy went to get a change of clothes for him. He started laughing hysterically at something so I went to join in the fun and found him standing in the thing he found so funny. Naturally he was so happy he HAD to have a hug (he's a generous kid and likes to share his joy) so he ran to me, tracking it along with him. The thing I found to be the most hilarious was my total paralysis - "Uh, Kim! He's uh... Kim? Hey um... Kim??? Hmm - Yeah, looky there..." To her credit, Kim found my reaction funny enough that she wasn't too upset about the cleanup - In about 18 years I'm going to let that kid know he owes me for diffusing the situation

I think I remember hearing from somebody at West Systems that virtually the only thing that won't stick to properly prepared (sanded) two-part epoxy is one-part epoxy. You might check to see if that bullseye stuff is one-part epoxy.

My current kayak is a wood frame covered by 1000 denier Cordura (Cordura is typically used in backpacks and stuff where high-strength and abrasion resistance are needed). I've beat that boat up a lot and although the wood frame has suffered, the Cordura is still doing great. It has a waterproof coating on one side. I put the coated side of the material on the inside of the boat and painted the outside with oil-based porch and deck paint for good measure. I think cordura would be a good substitute for canvas hinges. I haven't had any exposure to the heavy PVC so I can't say which would be better. Maybe I'll use the PVC next time... Oh yeah - I've tried the duct-tape repair on cordura and I can say for sure that it doesn't work so it sounds like PVC is more easily repaired.

I like the look of the military boat. The diagonals on the transom suggest that the whole thing folds as one piece when the seat is removed. I still haven't found any more info on the russian folding kayak and at this point I've put it on my list to design something similar. I think I can put together a design that's light, compact and takes only a minute or two to set up. Unfortunately my list is pretty long right now so it'll probably be a year or two before I do anything with it. Have you decided on which way to go for your dinghy?

Frank, Here's a folding kayak that looks quite portable. It's quite a bit different from the russian design. Actually you might already be familiar with it. I see that the designer has a link to the B and B website. http://www.rtpnet.org/robroy/boats/PakYak/setup.html

Frank, Oops! I just referred you to a link that you referred me to. If I'm not careful I'll get us into an infinite loop

Frank, The boat that aleksey described seemed a lot simpler to set up. The skin was sewn up as all one piece with no lacing or other adjustment (picture a boneless kayak). The frame was folded, not disassembled for transport. To set the boat up he would first fold the skin back on itself so the bow and stern were touching and the cockpit opening was on the outside of the fold. The stringer assembly was inserted in to the cockpit opening and the bow and stern were pushed into their respective ends in the folded over skin. The whole assembly was then unfolded and locked into place using a mechanical linkage reminiscent of a shoe stretcher. I can't remember for sure if there were frames to insert at this point or if the frames folded along with the stringers. The locking of the stringer assembly pulled tension into the skin fore-and-aft and the inflatable bags between the deck stringers and the skin pulled the skin tight radially. It was really quite ingenious. Unfortunately I changed jobs not long ago and I'm no longer in contact with Aleksey. I'll surf around a bit more and see if I can come up with something like it on the web. In the meantime here are some other folding boats... http://foldingkayaks.org/

How hard do you want to hit things with your CS20? I was looking at my CS17-in-progress yesterday with a friend and we were talking about catastrophic stuff. I feel pretty good that if the hull is breached I won't drown. There are 2 watertight (or nearly so) compartments under each seat, a watertight forepeak and a watertight lazarette and there's the main cockpit area for a total of 7 distinct areas (No it's not unsinlable like the Titanic ). I think that's a positive thing if you're thinking about catastrophic events. I've never hit anything hard enough in ANY boat (and I've built some rickety boats) to breach the hull so I think we're really talking about a survival event here, not the normal wear and tear of beaching. Any home built boat can be a home repaired boat and so as long as I can limp home with wet feet I'm happy. The cockpit sides add a lot the the structural strength of the stressed-skin/torsion-box model so the boat shouldn't fall apart if holed. Does anybody out there have good stories about boats that actually have been holed and what might have prevented the damage?

Frank mentioned a finnish military folding boat - I've heard of a similar thing. About 5 years ago I started work at a company that had employed several imported Russian engineers. One day I saw a co-worker, Aleksey, in the parking lot. He got very excited when he saw my fabric-on-frame kayak in the back of my truck. For the next half-hour I got a description in broken english with diagrams on the white board of the kayak he built for his trips in Russia and points North. It was a VERY ingenious mix of military surplus aluminum tubing, a canvas skin, and flotation bags. To set the boat up you inserted the folded aluminum skeleton into the cockpit opening of the folded over skin. Then unfold the skeleton and insert the frames. Once the frames and stringers are locked into place you are left with a skin-on-frame kayak that has a loose skin. All that's left is to insert the flotation bags between the frame and the skin of the deck and inflate. The bags pull everything tight and you're ready for serious whitewater. The boats are built one-off based on body measurements (make this piece twice the length of your forearm, etc) so every one is different and it fits the builder. Aleksey told me that he HAD to make a folding kayak because first, he couldn't buy a kayak at any price (they just weren't for sale) and secondly because the boat had to fit in the luggage rack on the train. From what I remember the boat fit into a bag that was something like 5 feet long. If you're interested I'll try to find more information on the design (you don't necessarily have to shape it like a kayak). The essentials were really the locking mechanism that secured the boat in its unfolded shape and the use of the inflatable bags to tension the skin. I did like the folding boat at microcruising.com with the tabbed edges. The shape could be changed if necessary.

I like Garry's idea of the clamp on dolly but why not just permanently mount the two wheels on the stern? It would look a little funny but you'd still be sailing... Then as long as you mount the rear roof rack far enough back that you could rest the bow on the rack and the stern on the ground you'd only ever have to pick up half the boat. Or you could build the nesting version and load it a little at a time

Good for you John! You're hanging out with your daughter. Who cares if you're using okoume, luaun, or cheesecake. Worst case is the boat will falll apart in 5 years and you'll have to hang out and build another one with your daughter. Enjoy.

I plan to make a tent for CS17 #121 by putting snaps on the underside of the rub rail. I'm currently working on the cockpit sides and the other night I had a bunch of parts clamped into place and a few pieces of scrap wood marking various points in space: The end of the deck, the end of the centerboard trunk, etc. and this boat looks like it will be the ultimate camper - better than any pickup truck I can think of I think a dodger might be workable with the same sort of attachment. If you put snaps or those turning button things on the underside of the rub rails the dodger will be pulling against the snaps in a direction (up) that tends to keep them seated. The curve of the foredeck should help keep the front of the dodger snug against it. If that isn't good enough you could always use a semi-rigid batten (sewn into a pocket in the dodger) across the deck to keep the dodger in place or run a line from the middle of the bottom of the dodger to the base of the main mast to tension the leading edge. There are some universal tent pole replacements (fiberglass/carbon fiber?) that can be had from outdoor supply places that might work as hoops to hold the dodger up but I haven't looked at them closely so I don't know if they can really handle a lot of wind pressure. They are probably a better solution than PVC pipe but I'm sure there is someone out there who has practical experience with either PVC or tent poles who can address the subject with more authority (This entire post is pure speculation). I'm looking forward to the future posts on this thread because it will help me build my tent

A lot of the lumber available in those big home improvement centers here in NC is actually pine from Canada.

Ditto to what Ray said. I did all the fillets before adding the inwhales and things still worked out for me but that's not the only way to go.

I had some of the gaps you describe. They didn't worry me too much because they were symmetrical and every boat is going to be a little bit different. I also had the pinched bow you mentioned. That terrified me. I kept looking at it while I was filleting the seams, telling myself "It'll get a little better when I install the inwhales" but I didn't really believe it. I decided if the inwhales didn't help I would eventually modify the sheer a little bit to reduce the visual effect. I sweated and worried and when I installed the inwhales the boat became BEAUTIFUL:). Keep on building.

Funny - You posted your message yesterday and today there's an article on the CNN website about the company. They do the software stuff and shop the machining out to other companies. It's kind of a neat value-added thing. http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/08/26/online.manufacturing.ap/index.html I guess their business will be picking up a bit... And no, I'm not affiliated with them either - Actually I haven't even looked at the website.

I Originally wanted to build a boat to live on but as I looked around and made realistic observations about my lifestyle I decide a trailer sailer would be a better bet for me. I liked the Princess 22 but it is still a bit big for my current needs. Eventually I decided on an open boat that I could camp out on occasionally, day sail, or go fishing in. By then I was familiar with this forum and with Graham and Carla (I did buy plans for the Princess 22 and I may build it one day) so my first look at an open camper type boat was at the CS boats (I looked at a bunch of others too, though). The plans are some of the best I have seen (I am a drafter/designer by trade). They are thorough but don't include unnecessary detail. It's often more difficult deciding what to leave out of a drawing than what to put in it. Mostly I picked the CS17 because of the combination of resources (the forum and the designer) and the beauty/practicality of the (well-tested) design. There are plenty of well developed designs out there so keep looking until you are tired of looking and you'll find that there's one design that you keep returning to. That's the one you should build. When you pick one let us know what/why...

I have a nasty dip or two in my boat too, Ray. I set up supports cut the same as the bulkheads and the temp frame but I just guessed at the amount of weight to let the center support carry. I think the suggestion of using the supports to carry the load at the chines is a good one. I'm going to be okay with the ugly dips because they are on the bottom of the boat where I won't be looking at them Scott, Rocker is the fore and aft (the curve of the bottom when the boat is viewed from the side).