Paul356
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Posts posted by Paul356
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I squared off the coaming and used 3/8" douglas fir that I ripped out of a long board. I liked the look next to the darker epoxied ply decks. Thelower part of the attached photo gives a flavor of it. Straight across the front of the cockpit, then follow the curved sides back to the transom.
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Amos, wish I could join you in the extra little trip at the messabout this year, but it won't happen. Sail happy.
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Our group was up in the Apostle Islands at the northern tip of Wisconsin in Lake Superior this past week. We had amazingly good weather and amazingly light breeze. Altogether I sailed about 71 miles over 6 days, which includes about 10 motoring miles in the light air. I was the only Core Sound, and, um, I was speedy.
Slept on the boat every night. I ended up sailing along with buddy John in his Scamp (thus his appearance in the sunset photo), although our group started out with 13 boats and 15 folks. A couple pix follow.
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And you! I won't make it to the messabout this year. The extra trip to the Bay sounds great and I wish I could make it, but we have some extensive travel plans later in Oct/Nov, so I'll be putting the boat away. Hope you make it and have a great trip.
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Hey, Reacher,
Short and sweet, say I. In other words, I endorse Andy's advice. State "as-is" and "buyer may obtain a survey at buyer's expense if desired." That's really about it. I agree with using both the title and a bill of sale. There are decent, short bill of sale forms available on the web. The Wisconsin title and title transfer documents do not say a word about boat condition, so using a bill of sale to state "as-is", etc., is a smart move.
Remember if you're selling a trailer, you need to transfer that title, too. Even in Wisconsin, where license plates aren't required for trailers, they are titled. The trailer and "as-is," etc., can go on the same bill of sale as the boat.
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I just wanted to share these with the group. The wing-on-wing is a photo by Diane Gallo from mid-July, medium evening air on Lac La Belle near Oconomowoc, Wisconsin, downwind leg of a "fun race."
The beam reach photo is by Eric Miller during the recent Michigan Messabout at Muskegon, breezy day.
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I stuff a towel in there.
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No skeeters. Just a few black flies every time I sailed near one of the Bass islands. Sailed away, and the flies went away
Sounds like I might see you in Muskegon?
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I had to repost this. In case there's any doubt, the 17 is great boat. It was deemed a belle of the Raid last week. Scroll down for details. (Apologies for the hamfisted reef. I ran the first reef line into the second reef block by mistake. Dang reef lines anyway.)
Here's a wrap up of RAID ERIE 2025. If you'd like to see some pictures and videos of the event, be sure to check out the Facebook Group, to see what some of the attendees have shared there.
We ended up with 35 boats and 50 attendees, and the group raised $1,140 to support our keynote speaker, Sven Yrvind, with his latest boat build project and voyage to New Zealand, where he has been told he will receive ice cream.
If you attended the event, hope you had a great time! Whether you attended or not, hope to see you for RAID ERIE 2026 - you can expect an email to go out when registration opens. You can also expect a follow up email here in a few weeks, summarizing the improvements we will make in the format, based on everyone's feedback.Oh, and if you or your business are interested in supporting the event, there are sponsorship tiers and benefits starting at just 'a silent auction donation' up through several tiers of financial support. All sponsorship proceeds will be used to directly offset the costs of the event, with an 'open books' policy. LMK if interested, and I can share the sponsor tier info!Finally, let's all congratulate our "RAID'ers Choice" winners, chosen by nomination and votes from the 2025 attendees:
Overall Winner - Belle of the Buoys1930's Pert Lowell Town ClassChris Iriarte
Honorable Mentions (in no particular order)
Dame(s) of the DocksSea Pearl 21s (tie)Thad Hallberg & David Park
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Queen of the QuaysCore Sound 17 Mk IPaul BargrenPrincess of the PierWayfarerNick SlatMadam of the MooringsFlow 19Thierry HumeauSiren of the SlipsPuddle DuckBrian Little-
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I'm now confirmed for Sept 6 in Muskegon.
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I glassed my rudder (CS 17 MkI) and have been glad I did. The prop even brush against it once while running and I couldn't find a dent. I also did the rope trick on the leading edge front, and have been extremely happy with that also. Rocks beware. Rope trick on centerboard with same happy result.
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I agree. Solo I sit up at the mid-thwart if I have gear forward, or straddling it if no gear. Passengers sit foward of the thwart, normally up against the cuddy, except on the rare occasion when the boat is really loaded down with gear, and they can sit back a bit. This is on a MkI.
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I saw a small CS in the harbor at McKinley today and realized it's been there the last few days, too. Coming out of the Sailing Center, I think. Who dat?
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That oar solution is very slick.
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I guess I should amend that: 1 quart of primer, 1 of color. But if you're using primer as a fill coat, then you'll probably want two qts of primer to make sure you have enough to paint, sand, paint, sand, etc.
Btw, I used Jamestown's deck paint for the floor inside, the paint with the grit already in it. Worked swell. I repainted those areas 7 years later with the same stuff, still worked swell.
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I can do two coats on the hull of my 17 Mk I with a quart and still have some left over.
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It's so great to read Graham's notes.
I had an additional thought about my upwind day vs the Scamp. I finally just dropped the sails and kicked on the 2.5. Suzuki outboard. The 17 went dead upwind like a champ, and really a pretty dry ride. I was amazed at how easy the progress was. I don't want js thinking he'll get stuck downwind on a blustery day.
I also had a chance to try Graham's tips later, on an equally blustery day, but without the waves. Worked swell. One thing I learned was not to try to point the usual 45 or 50 degrees off the wind, 55 or so is fine and still gets you up wind.
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I've sailed a couple of trips in company with a Scamp. I agree the Scamp is quite slow compared to the CS. It is also fairly complicated to build, especially compared to the CS boats. A couple of folks from a large a reputable kit-making concern that will otherwise go unnamed stopped by our volunteer shop and saw the Scamp that is underconstruction there, and has been for quite some time. One of them said, "All that work, and still all you have is a Scamp." I agree (and agree with similar comments above).
I, too, have been attracted by videos of some of the other Welsford boats but those, too, seem like bigger contrustion projects than a CS. But I think all the added features probably make them very seaworthy.
Attributes of the Scamp, at least as I understand them from the companion mentioned above: It has the little cuddy that helps make the cockpit into a snug one-person sleeping area, if you have right tent. It will chug on through anything, albeit at it's own pace. I have seen it recover from a capsize, and it was very quick and essentially dry, done by one person. A capsize in a CS is a different matter, speaking unfortunately from experience.
The one time the Scamp really clobbered me was in a pretty fresh breeze, probably sustained >20 with higher gusts, and waves 1-2 feet, maybe a bit higher. My friend in the Scamp put in a reef and went plugging to windward without another care. I could not get to wind! I had put double reefs in both sails, and wasn't sailing the 17 very well, I decided later (too much luffing, not enough holding course). I think I would have been better off with a single-reefed mizzen in that breeze, sheeted in sort of half way. I talked to Graham later and got some tips. I think I will do much better next time. But that Scamp kept on plugging.
My friend in the Scamp is looking at a Longsteps as his next build, so he's sold on the Scamp ideas, but would like something with a longer waterline and more speed.
Wow, that came outlonger than I expected.
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I built my 17 from Graham's kit and echo everything Padre says.
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I've done a lot of day sailing in my 17 (MkI) and also a lot of sail camping, fitted out with a dodger and lately a rear gizmo that makes a tent from the mizzen mast forward. I think it's great for both. I unexpectedly had 8 people aboard one day for daysailing, but it worked great. Great ballast on a breezy day. More freuqently day sail with two ro three adults and some kids aboard. Sailed part of the Everglades Challenge with a boat full of gear and one other guy aboard. We were probably pretty heavy but, again, good ballast for a breezy run and I felt like we were moving well. When I'm aboard by myself, it's a neat sailing dinghy and I need to remind myself to reef early. Never sailed a 15, so nothing to compare there, I'm afraid. But I'm a big fan of a 17 for lots of various uses.
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the 20 is emminently buildable, but it won't happen overnight. and, perhaps not needed, but a clarifying note on don silsbee's note: Alan's 2d video shows construction of a CS 20 Mark III, with cabin and water ballast. You might be looking at that, but if you're looking at the 20' Mark 1, open boat, not water ballast, construction is quite a bit more straightforward. The 15-footer is much more like the 20' Mark 1. Techniques are the same, tho, generally, in both videos.
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I've been leaving mine in the boat all winter, lead wires disconnected, ever since I saw the boatyard was storing the batteries it removed in an unheated area of the shed. Seems fine. I fully charge before leaving them.
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So you sit on the centerboard trunk then, I guess?
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Don,
I ended up putting a second set of oar sockets forward. I sit on the cuddy top and row from there. Not the best, but it gets the job done, I guess. I find I want to extend the oars out too far, so need to fight that urge. I need to take shorter, less strenuous strokes. I made oars 10.5 feet long. My crew handled the rudder.
Rowing from the cuddy top worked well enough to get through an adverse tide in the Everglades Challenge a couple years ago, but it is tiring. If anything got in the way, it was my life jacket, as I'd be pulling in and then dropping hands to make the recovery. My hands got caught in the front of the jacket.
I did try rowing from the mizzen seat once, to see what it was like. I left the masts on shore and headed out rowing from the middle seat. I think I felt it was kind of low, as I remember propping myself up on a cushion. My verdict was that it rowed like a 400 pound boat. That is, not that swell. I had left the outboard on, and people kept stopping by, assuming I had engine trouble and was using the oars as Plan B. I guess no one rows in Wisconsin any more.
Lately I've been using a canoe paddle from the side seat near the stern. In calmer water it works great. (Lock the rudder.) I haven't tried it against a full blown headwind. All in all, I have decided the best option is the outboard, even for a short haul. (I aso found the outboard works far better for steering with the rudder blade pulled up out of the water.)
Maybe I should try rowing from a standup position, standing just in front of the mizzen and using the front oar sockets. But the last few trips, I haven't even brought the oars along. They are hard to store.
--pb
CS 17 mast step helper
in B & B Yachts Forum
Posted
I gotta say, for me, pulling the mast is harder than stepping it. I built a little fiberglas lip around the front of the mast hole. I put the heel of the mast against that and it lets me raise the mast up pretty easily. But pulling it out of the hole and balancing it back down is another matter.