Dale Niemann

Steve, Glad you have made the final decision. I think you will find the CS will meet or exceed all you expectations. By the way, I enjoyed talking with you at St. Michaels. You were having so much fun with your Spindrift that it made me want to build one for myself so I would have boats for all occasions. Good luck and have fun building. dale

Sorry, I meant to attach this photo.

Not sure what you mean by seal the chase. I used epoxy for attaching my chase, after roughing up the PVC with 60 grit sandpaper wherever it was to be glued in. Where the chase came through the aft floor I used thickened epoxy and a plywood collar around it. The chase inside is not sealed in any way on my boat. Hope this helps. dale

Chick, It was interesting a few posts back to see your history. Thanks for sharing. I have lived in Clearwater since 1970. I just happened to be at the launch ramp when the first test sail of the ComPac 16 was completed. It was a very blustery day. The guys I talked to were very happy with the boat. The rest is history. I was sailing an O'Day Daysailor II in those days. I got rid of the Daysailor primarily because every time I beached it the centerboard slot would get clogged with sand and I would have to go underwater to pull it down with a special tool I made. This is another reason I love the CS boats with their offset centerboards and the small keel. Before I built my 'Lively' I was sailing the Marples 10' Tri. I was able to keep up with Sea Pearls in light air but as soon as it picked up they took off. So when I was looking to build my next boat I was looking for a boat that would at least keep up with the Sea Pearl. What I have found is that my CS 17 will get passed by Sea Pearls in very light air but as soon as it picks up 'Lively' will pass them planing all the way. I am sure Graham is probably never passed by a Sea Pearl, he knows how to sail. I can't say much about my sailing ability but I try and enjoy. I have been very happy with my choice of the CS 17 instead of the Sea Pearl. Many friends in our club sail Sea Pearls. Sorry for interrupting your post with my stuff. dale

Here is what 'Lively' looks like arriving at Cayo Costa, FL after a grueling 10 mile slug in 25 Knots double reefed planing most of the way. dale

Well since you mentioned me, I will comment and attach to this post a photo of Lively's cabin. It is made of Sunbrella, was custom made and very expensive. It has several features which I really like. It has zippered openings in both the forward and aft with screens or windows/fabric. It also has a nice window on each side. It folds down flat forward of the combing. It has proven very waterproof and dry in all kinds of weather. As you can see in the photos the cabin extends back to just forward of the Mizzen mast. I have drop in slat boards which convert this area into one big flat area or as I usually do just one half flat with my "pottie" on the other side. This also allows complete upright sitting position on that side. I am 5'8" and can lay straight out on one side. On the negative side. I have one very strong one that I wish I had done differently. By my choice I made the cabin high enough that I can almost stand up in for dressing, etc. However, this has proven to be a detriment because every time I want to go for a sail I must lower the cabin. So I would recommend making the height below the sail so you can sail with it up.One other problem which is not really that big but is strange or inconvenient. The cabin is totally dry in rains. However, since aft of the cabin is open water accumulates in floor area which in the CS 17 extends forward under the drop down boards. This means bailing or wet feet at "certain" times. The other thing is a potential problem which has not happened so far but could. Those little flying monsters that bite could enter through the bottom. Changing my drop in from slats to solid pieces and giving up my "pottie" spot would solve the bug problem which really has not been a problem yet. I remember the North Channel. It would be a problem there or in many spots in FL. I just have been lucky so far. I believe Wes had a design which looked very nice and was hard but was very low. my opinions. Have fun designing yours. dale dale

I will say that I started with sleeve sails and did not like them primarily because they would not reef. I go beach cruising with our WCTSS sailing club and found that you have to be able to reef because you never know when the wind will kick up. I usually sail by myself so I need to reef early. I converted to a track with two reefs and have found it very satisfactory. I leave the sails on the mast and roll up on the mast which is very easy and quick when launching or retrieving. I have rarely removed (dropped the sails). Only for inspection of the halyards. dale

Peter comment reminded me of something that I did forget to mention. I have a custom made cabin for the whole area forward of the mizzen. I have snaps on the outside of my raised combing which have worked very well for keeping out rain water since the canvas cabin falls outside the combing. This is also the reason I will only flatten the combing aft of the mizzen. Hopefully you can see what I am talking about in the photo. dale

Lennie, Glad you talked to Graham. That helps me make my decision also. You did not say, are you raising it on forward deck? I think it looks nice up there and may keep some splash out. dale

Lennie, you are a very astute observer. I went out to the garage and measured. The combing rise above deck is 3/4" along the sides and 1 3/8" in center forward. I was just guessing before. Peter, I knew there was somebody on this site that had done the butt pads but I had forgotten it was you. I did not realize you put them forward for your crew also. I was not planning on doing that. I figure without them it will just keep my crew tough. Thus, one of the reasons I usually sail alone. Thanks for giving us the details. I think right now I am leaning toward making them flat all the way back from just behind the main sheet cleat. I only remember one time when water came in over the combing. It was the only time, so far, that I almost capsized her. I released the sheet got lucky and she immediately righted herself and saved me. If I flatten it out, I will also remove the aft oar station. I cannot use it without taking the mizzen mast down so I have never used it. dale

I could be wrong but I seem to remember Graham saying about one of his boats he was going to completely flatten the combing aft of the mainsheet cleats where you sit when hiking out. He was tired of sitting on the combing. I feel about the same. Don't know which boat or whether or not he did it. This in fact is one of the things I am considering doing with 'Lively' but have not decided yet. The way I see it is I have three choices: 1. leave it the way it is with about half inch of combing sticking up and a very small flat piece outboart of the combing about 2" by 6" which accepts the rear oar locks, 2. flatten the combing out to level and get rid of the rear oar locks or 3. Increase the size of the wood housing the oar locks so it would leave about a 1" wide channel next to combing for water to flow through but cover the rest of the deck just aft of the mainsheet cleats. Sorry my memory is so bad about terminology but cannot remember the name of the part that receives the oarlocks or the mainsheet cleats. I would appreciate any opinions on these choices. dale

Dave, Sounds like a great approach to boat building when you are an amateur. dale

I am not sure why you added the last statement. It seems that would not figure into the 1st question. I will go out on a limb here. I epoxy everything. I only use screws where Graham calls for them specifically. I think they do not provide more strength and are potential for movement and eventually rot. On a deck for instance it seems like a great place for water to settle and eventually work its way into the screw area and cause rot. I am sure others out there will not agree with me but it is my opinion based on a lot of reading and building a few boats which are still around and functioning. dale

Great job. She looks beautiful. dale

Good luck on your build. I bought the plans a long time ago but like my CS 17 too much to build another boat right now. I love the classic laps and more traditional look of the Lapwing and have never built a lap boat so at the time I thought I would like to build one then ended up building the Marissa. dale

It looks good to me. However, I will point out one thing. I believe Graham still recommends "U" bolts for the bow and stern. I do not know why but I am sure he has his reasons. I believe the "U" bolts are usually mounted vertically on the stern as well as the bow. I believe your plan looks good and also that I think it will work with "U" bolts. dale

First, I spent a lot of time worrying too. In the end it was not as bad as I thought it would be. Two things I worry about what you are doing. The pivot point will be carrying about 1/2 boat weight so Make sure it is firmly attached. I like MM's idea of using the bow and stearn bolts. They are through bolted and therefore very strong. I had the most problem with garage height and then the when boat reached your drawing #3. It wanted to flip quickly. It seems to me that your pivot point will make it flip even more quickly. It seems like MMs cross at the stearn might be able to slow it. I had two lines holding it up. Basically wrapped around the hull and able to move freely. One about two feet from the stern and another about 6 feet or so from the bow. I agree that it is good to have several strong men helping. They can man handle it if necessary. My son and his friend were there to help me which was very welcome and helped a lot. Sorry, I tried to find photos then remembered that my other son was designated video man and he thought he had turned the camera on but did not so we have no record of the big event. Get someone to take videos from your phone or camera so you will be able help those who need it in the future. A picture is worth a thousand words. Good luck. dale

Sorry, I cannot answer your last questions. But I can tell you the boat is very strong. Why don't you move whatever you are doing at bulkhead 2 toward the center of the boat? I am not sure I totally understand what you are doing but the lowering of the boat when it is upside down to the floor may not be good because when the boat moves to become totally on it side will essentially make your pivot point be half the beam width above the floor. You are right to be concerned about it flipping fast. I tried to control it with ropes and that did not work. Hope that helps. dale

I can't tell your ceiling height. My garage ceiling height is about 9'3". I had the eye bolts just about flush with the ceiling. I used come-alongs. Be aware depending on how long they are you may not have enough room to turn her over. I thought I had plenty of room and ended Just barely having enough. I had to rest it and sort of manually lift it then she wanted to go over fast so be aware. I had two straps through pulleys hanging from the come-alongs. The idea was we would lift her up then just run the line though the pulley as she swung over. Once we got her slightly over half way she just when over mostly uncontrolled. No real problems but scary. Hope that makes some sense. That sure is a great color scheme you have chosen. I love it. dale

A couple quotes I feel related to the discussion above. dale "A man builds the best of himself into a boat- builds many of the memories of his ancestors." -Steinbeck At her home in Tokyo author, collector, and folk art champion Amy Katoh speaking of objects made by hand says, "You can hear the voices of the people who made them when you use them"

Just for fun, I went back to my original plans for CS 17 'Lively' and they show 63 main and 53 mizzen for a total of 116 sq ft. dale

Graham, One thing you did not mention on your website and I do not believe it has come up on this thread, is unsinkability. Anytime I hear lead I wonder about this. I believe you are only placing it at the bottom of the centerboard but I still think it is an attribute of your boats worth mentioning. dale

After thinking about it, I realized that the weight difference of 50# is unloaded. Once people and water ballast are on board the difference is about 300#. I still bet she flys. dale

Alan, I have hit your tip jar with a little something to help support your past videos and hopefully many more in the future. http://www.sailnaway.blogspot.com/ dale

Sorry to be the one to bring the news Graham. Thanks for the clarification. It makes more sense to me now. Is the sail area correct? It goes from 119 to 141 on the mk3? The mk3 is going to fly with all that sail and only about 50 more pounds. dale