wwbaginski Posted May 27, 2016 Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 Hi All, there's attached (I hope so) a photo of BRS17 with all the power means she has at the moment - well may by another pair of oars is missing but yes there's another pair, left ashore at that moment. Made last week during Raid Pomerania (polish-German border area). We (the crew) stated that a genaker was to be another propulsion we might try. I didn't see genakers on B&B boats in use except EC22 Southern Skimmer and CS17 La Perla, and at the drawing of CS17Mk3. Why it is so unpopular and what about using that designed for CS17Mk3 one on BRS17? Wojtek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMoon Posted May 27, 2016 Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 Here's Bandaloop under mizzen staysail a couple of weeks ago. It is a must-have sail, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted May 28, 2016 Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 Can you be more specific about your concerns on a genaker? Would you use this instead of a staysail? Maybe flying one off the main? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Potts Posted May 28, 2016 Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 You'd need a bowsprit to fly a gennaker, wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom151 Posted May 28, 2016 Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwbaginski Posted May 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 Thanks for the photos. A mizzen staysail is a must-have sail indeed. We sailed miles this year using it (long tacks made few good opportunities) and it works fine. As for a gennaker , I actually wonder whether it doubles staysail action, or makes en extra advantage itself (there're photos of Southern Skimmer sailing staysail and gennaker the same time, and - like that from tom 151 - sailing with gennaker only). Each possibility makes me interested. To be exact I'm not racing BRS , it's just cruising but I'm lucky to sail at large areas which allow for really long tacks. The bowsprit seems to be technical question easy to fix on BRS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMoon Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Sailing downwind and broad reaching in really light airs, the more sail area you have, the more better. So yes, adding another big reaching/running sail out front on a long sprit where you can catch more air is going to be faster. What would be nice is if you could pull the sprit to windward to sail a bit deeper. I'm going to try a symmetrical spinnaker on my main for more power going deep. The mizzen staysail will remain the go-to reaching sail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnjost Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I would think that in addition to a bowsprit (let's go retractable just for fun), some kind of running backstays would be essential to help keep the mast bend under control. Too much high tech for me, wing and wing downwind and a hand on a tiller and a beverage. I have yet to rig my Mizzen staysail, but may get to it this week or next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom151 Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I would think that in addition to a bowsprit (let's go retractable just for fun), some kind of running backstays would be essential to help keep the mast bend under control. Too much high tech for me, wing and wing downwind and a hand on a tiller and a beverage. If memory serves, always a risk with mine, Graham described his setup for the spinnaker as taking the spinn halyard to the windward rail amidships, as adequate for providing the necessary mast support. That may be incorrect, or he may have refined it, but it's my memory of it. wwbaginski -- As far as taking the pole to windward,.. the simple setup on Gougeon's 'Hot Canary' (an i550) might work sweetly on a B&B design as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I'm with you Dnjost. It surprises me that people buy or build a certain boat that seemed to have met a certain criterior at some point and then try to continually change things to make it go faster. If you want speed go and buy a hydro Moth. BandB boats are cruisers that are capable of planning sometimes under the right conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMoon Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 I would think that in addition to a bowsprit (let's go retractable just for fun), some kind of running backstays would be essential to help keep the mast bend under control. Too much high tech for me, wing and wing downwind and a hand on a tiller and a beverage. I have yet to rig my Mizzen staysail, but may get to it this week or next. Graham has very nice and simple running backstays on Carlita's mainmast. If I do a symmetrical spinnaker, I will copy his idea. On Bandaloop I run the staysail halyard back to a cleat under the rail on the windward side. It helps, but in in stronger winds it's best not to look up at the mizzen mast as it adopts some unnatural shapes. Out of sight, out of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMoon Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 I'm with you Dnjost. It surprises me that people buy or build a certain boat that seemed to have met a certain criterior at some point and then try to continually change things to make it go faster. If you want speed go and buy a hydro Moth. BandB boats are cruisers that are capable of planning sometimes under the right conditions. You can have plenty of fun under only plain sail on a CS17 as long as you've got some breeze. Downwind in light air is painful, though. Adding staysails and the like makes a huge difference when you've got 5 knots or less and you have to go downwind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwbaginski Posted June 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 It surprises me that people buy or build a certain boat that seemed to have met a certain criterior at some point and then try to continually change things to make it go faster. If you want speed go and buy a hydro Moth. BandB boats are cruisers that are capable of planning sometimes under the right conditions. My question wasn't which boat should I buy. It was how gennnaker might improve BRS's performance. Expedition racing is what B&B promotes its designs with, isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Having the ability to sail in light air is a must. I plan on having a mizzen staysail at the very least. My current boat (Sea Pearl 21) is a pretty good light wind sailor, but there are times when putting up the staysail transforms an almost still day into fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Silsbe Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 wwbaginski-- I'm also somewhat interested in this discussion thread. I just completed my BRS 15 this spring. I'm still learning the ins and outs of sailing a cat ketch, but I also wonder about the gennaker option. We have very light airs here in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwbaginski Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Thrillsbe, here are some comments to cat-ketch rigged bigger sailboats. May be helpful to think about abilities of our small open boats operation. http://www.rodgermartindesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/RodgerMartinhandout-51.pdf http://documents.mx/documents/joy-of-sharpies.html Another great stuff to keep in mind is the video on B&B front page showing Alan Steward maneuvering his CS-15. Wow. BRS has lower freeboard and no side decks so we have to be careful ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom151 Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Another alternative sail plan - this four sail reaching looks very close winded too, From the board of Roger Martin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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