adhoc Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Greetings, I'm glad to have found this forum. I'm enamoured with the CS designs, but I have two-left thumbs and a very busy schedule. I am wondering if anyone can comment on commercial building. A few questions: 1) Anyone have any ideas on a professional boat builder who has experience and/or willingness to build a custom CS20 MK III? 2) Would you care to venture a price range for building? 3) Just how hard would it be for a first time builder? 4) Any thoughts on a production boat that comes anywhere close (i.e., a fast, beachable, self-righting monohull with a cabin) p.s. I'm located on the Sunshine Coast of British Columbia, and would offer a chartered cruise as a bonus to the builder. Thanks! Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Welcome to the forum. A professional build will be costly compared to doing the project yourself, as your labor isn't part of the invoice. As to pricing, well this can be all over the place, depending on the builder, their resources, talent, reputation, etc. My pricing would start around 15K. I think a first builder, with some serious woodworking experience can muddle through well enough, particularly with help from this forum, though this wouldn't be my recommendation for a first build - just too big and complex as a jumping off point. A typical first build is smaller and less complex. There are quite a few production sailers that might fit your needs. Some will need rehab, maybe new rigging a sails, but this is a whole lot cheaper and easier, than cutting your teeth on a 20' boat build. The amount of work will depend on how rough the used boat is, which can range from a whole restoration to just some cosmetics. The CS-20 MkIII is a pretty big boat. Is there a reason you need something of this size? What are you anticipated uses - number of crew, sailing area, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhoc Posted December 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Thanks PAR, Typical crew is ideally 2-6 for day cruises and 2 -3 for extended cruises. I'd like to cruise north from here (maybe as far as Alaska), south to spend a few days on-board in Vancouver or Seattle harbours, and have the ability to trailer the boat to places as far afield as the Sea of Cortez, Lake Havasu and, who knows, maybe even Florida. Mostly it will get weekend gunkholing use in the Salish Sea and the nearby deep water sounds. Currents in these parts are fast, and winds are often light during the storm free season. As mentioned a fast, very shallow draft boat with good accomodations and trailerability are my key wish list. I want to be able to pull into beaches and step out in my gum boots. To sum it up: I'm looking for a boat that is: easy to rig and trailer, high performance, beachable, with liviable accomodation under $20,000 USD (I can't really afford a tri). What production boats would you suggest are similar to the core sound in these ways. Catalina 22s, maybe some older J boat models? -Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 This is probably not the place to discuss or recommend production boats. I would suggest trailersailor.com and maybe some other sailing sites. You find a good deal of experience and worthy advice there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhoc Posted December 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Fair Enough Garry, I would still appreciate any insight folks have on options for a CS or similar design for non-builders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Silsbe Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Maybe you could find a local builder, professional or amateur, who would agree to coach you through the process. Much of the build is repetitive process. Taping and filleting goes on and on. Same with epoxy coating & sanding. If you contracted someone to drop in once or twice a week for an hour or two, plus be on call for the inevitable panic situations, I think you would be just fine. Granted, the CS20 is a huge undertaking for a first-time builder. But with someone peering over your shoulder, it might not be so bad. What does everyone else think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I agree. You approach it one small segment at a time. Your goal is to finish each segment, then move on to the next. Don't think about finishing the whole boat, just each small step. You CAN do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Boatbuilding isn't an instant gratification sort of deal. It's a bit like raising kids. It takes longer than you hoped, cost much more than you've imagined and eventually you have something you're quite proud to call your own. As to other designs, I don't think this forum is so stuffy that they shouldn't be discussed, but in this vein, there are so many different plans and even production boats to choose from, it's a difficult conversation to start. This is a link to sailboatdata.com. I did a quick search with only 20' to 20' (length) as the parameters for production sailboats and 66 show up. Everything from the venerable Cal 20 to the WindRose 20. Maybe you can run through the list and see if any strikes your fancy. http://sailboatdata.com/firstpage.asp Fill in the length limits and see which of these are available in your area. Lots of great boats, many that I've sailed and/or owned over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Silsbe Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 PAR says it well, when he states "Boatbuilding isn't an instant gratification sort of deal. It's a bit like raising kids. It takes longer than you hoped, cost much more than you've imagined and eventually you have something you're quite proud to call your own." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 This means I'm a frigging orphanage and have raised a lot of brats, too . . . Geeze, no wonder I'm tired . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Jones Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Don't overlook the option of buying a used coresound. There probably aren't a lot of mark 3's on the market yet, but they will come along as more get built. Boats built by fussy amateur builders can be of extremely high quality since they aren't under the economic pressure to turn a profit. I've seen some well built used boats sell for less then the cost of their materials. I'm south of you in Seattle but sailing some of the same waters you describe. The CS 17 or 20 mark 3, or Belhaven 19 are all good choices. I've found the ability to beach is critical as is having a dry place to sleep when it is 50F and raining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Silsbe Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Sounds like you're gonna need a little charcoal-fired pot-bellied stove. I saw one once, on an Arlberg 30. Cute as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 There's lots of choices. http://sailboatdata.com/imagehelper.asp?file_id=9696 This is the WindRose 20 I mentioned and I've owned one, years ago. Fast, beachable, weatherly, with typical production camp cruising accommodations. Boats like this can be had cheap and with new sails and rigging can be nearly good as new. There's plenty of old sailboats in need of new, loving owners and this is far cheaper and easier than building new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 PAR is writing wise words. There are only three reasons to build your own boat. You can't find exactly what you want, or modify an existing boat into what you want. You really like to build stuff, especially boats. You are infected with the sickness. I started out motivated by one and two, but I am in full blown three by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm not sure where you're located, but if near a coast, there are marinas and boat shops that will dot the landscape. Some are the big boys where you can't fart, without taking the boat over to their service dock first, but many will be friendly to owners looking to fix stuff. These smaller, more friendly yards will have several boats, usually lined up against a fence near the back of the yard, out of plain sight of the paying guests. These out of sight boats will be covered with tattered tarps, often held down with old tires and trash cans. These boats will be stained, covered with mold, algae, with paint jobs only a mother could love. Clear signs of neglect will be visible and it's these are boats you can get for a song and a dance. A lot of times, they'll just hope to recover some of the unpaid storage fees. Some might have a mechanic's lien against them, while others simply have a once loving owner, that's become ill or disenchanted and can't get the work done like they once did. These marinas and yards want to get rid of these boats, maybe recovering what they have in them, but a paying slot in their yard is prefered, then the near derelict, they now have occupying the space. I've picked up boats to "flip" this way for years and though it takes a great deal of experience, to know which if these are good candidates, your desires are just to find a boat that fills your needs. I know of a well used Catalina 22 not far from me that's available for about $1,000. yeah, it'll need sails and running rigging, some cleaning, maybe some new hardware, but you'll have a pocket cruiser for not much. There's a beat down 'O Day 20 and a Cal 20 nearby as well, both with owners that have lost interest and need to move them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I also see unwanted pocket cruisers often on Craig's List. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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