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SteveKos

What to build next?

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Hi all. After my latest build, my lovely 'Aqua-bat' Spindrift 11, my thoughts are going to what next. My goal with building the spindrift was to not only acquire a sailboat that I could have some fun in, and learn some sailing skills, but also to further develop my boat building experience and skills for more ambitious projects.

 

Now I am starting to think seriously about my next boat build, and I am torn between options. Of the B & B options, I have narrowed it down to the Core Sound 17 Mk3, the Core Sound 20 Mk3 and the Bellhaven 19.

 

Of the 3 my leaning is more towards the CS17Mk3, due to the clever and compact design, and to be honest, the lower build cost, but I do like all three.

 

I have thought about what I will want to use the new boat for, and I expect that it will be mostly for day-cruises and 2-5 day voyages around the gulfs of South Australia. For those who know my part of the world, you will know that sailing from Adelaide to the Yorke Peninsula across Gulf St Vincent, or over to Kangaroo Island for some coastal exploring and fishing is every yachtie's dream. It seems that any of these boats will handle such a task well.

 

I expect that most of my sailing will be done solo or with 1 passenger/crew, so it needs to be an easy to sail and handle boat in a wide variety of conditions, and able to accommodate 2 in reasonable comfort. Sea conditions around here are very variable, so she will need to be able to handle all sailing conditions with safety.

 

I would appreciate some thoughts on the comparisons of the three models in question. Particularly the differences in sailing/handling, cost and ease of build.

 

This will be a long term project (my budget doesn't go to building boats!) so I will be purchasing materials as I can afford them and building the boat over an extended period (2-3 years). I plan to look out for bargains and good quality recycled or useable seconds at timber yards etc.

 

One consideration is where to build it! I built my spindrift in my carport but I don't think I will be able to accommodate this next build here. I will be keeping the boat outside under a tarp once completed but I will need to find somewhere to construct her in the first place. I can cut materials and assemble various sub-components here, but accommodating the hull once 3D's will be the thing.

 

Any thoughts and ideas will be much appreciated.

 

God bless, Steve.

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The CS-20 and Bellhaven 19 are just too big to comfortably handle solo. You can do it, but these oats are just big enough to make you wish for something more handy or another crew member. The CS-17 is a good choice and you can handle her by yourself without as much difficulty. It'll provide the accommodations you desire and the budget is more tolerable. A standard size garage can accept a CS-17, but just barely. A double garage offers room around the sides, but it's still a bit tight at the ends. If the double garage is empty (is there such a thing) you can put the boat in diagonally and have lots of room.

 

http://messing-about.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=4831

 

This is a CS-17 being built in a double car garage. There's about 3' aft and maybe 2' forward. The boat was built on a rolling jig, so it could be shoved around as required.

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I second the motion for the CS 17.  I built mine in a one car garage with just enough room to move around the hull.  I now have over 50 miles of single handed sailing under her keel, in a short month of sailing this past summer.  This is a great boat.  Cockpit tent and 9'6" oars are my off season projects. 

 

I think the link to my building blog us up here somewhere.  

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Hey Steve, we should stay in touch. I'm building a CS 20#3 in Canberra. I have just joined the three sections of the port and stbd side panels and the project is moving along slowly but steadily. Fortunately I have a very large double garage/workshop area, so we will see how it works out for room. Not long before I start thinking about "going 3D". We will see how much room I really have then. I have flown over the Gulf area many times, but I will just have to come down and sail those waters in the next year or two.

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Hi Steve,

 

You could easily sail all three boats solo, it is just a matter of how you set them up. I have to agree with PAR that the 17mk3 would be a good choice for a mostly solo sailor, of course I may be prejudiced. I have sailed all of our boats except the 17mk3 but I think that I can extrapolate with reasonable surety and that is why I am building one for me. I have already sailed her thousands of miles while building her and I think that she will be a good fit for me.

 

I am hoping that by next spring I will be able to prove my convictions.

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PAR-- "empty garage" is definitely an oxymoron!  

 

I have no experience to share on this subject, other than having crawled around on other people's CS20.3 (Jay Knight's) and CS17.3 (Chick Ludwig's).  My impression is that the 20 is huge, compared to the 17, both in the cockpit and the interior volume.  In my opinion, the decision would depend mainly upon your fitness level and age.  (And budget, of course.)  Building the 20 will definitely head off "Three-foot Fever", provided you can overcome the storage issues.  The 17 will be easier to handle when loading, rigging, etc., which is why I would consider it from a fitness and age perspective.  But as far as I'm concerned, you can't lose with either boat.

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 If the double garage is empty (is there such a thing) you can put the boat in diagonally and have lots of room.

Parkinson's Law is that work expands to fill the time available

Finnegan's Law is that crap accumulates to fill the space.  As a former building/remodeling contractor customers would often ask if the design has sufficient storage.  My answer was that no house ever does do to my law of expanding crap.

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I agree on the 17 as it is enough boat for your needs, but I previously built, owned and sailed a CS-20 Mk-2 and a Princess 22 sharpie and single handed both. They are no more difficult to solo-sail than the 17.

 

On any of them, only take what you need. It's a good idea to totally unload your "stuff" after each trip, and only take on the next trip what you actually used on the last trip.

 

And may God bless you, too, Steve.

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Thanks everyone for your input. It looks like the 17 will be the one I build, but I am still looking at other designs as well. I'm even intrigued by some of Jim Michalak's designs, particularly his prams. I sail frequently from Goolwa and a flattie would handle the mud flats and sudden shallows very well. I'm not going to rush this, I am enjoying the research!

 

Yes Drew, if you do make the effort to venture down this way I will make an effort to catch up, whether or not I have mine built by then. Happy to crew for you just for the experience!

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My vote is for the Belhaven. I've sailed many miles in a CS17 and loved it. I've spent half a dozen or so nights aboard and it was wonderful. However. the CS 17 is a large dingy and has great performance but nowhere near the creature comforts of the Belhaven. When I'm offshore and the only boat around 4 knots feels about the same as 3.7 knots. If I'm not in a race it doesn't matter.

When I'm at anchor, besides a comfortable bed, I want a comfortable place to sit. I want to be able to have a nice meal, enjoy the sunset, a wee dram of scotch, and be able to move around a bit.

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You can do what I do and make a decision matrix to decide which boat to build next.  If it doesn't tell you what you want to hear, just fudge the numbers a bit.  :P

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I hope the CS20 Mark III isn't too big to sail solo! I'm with Gordy a bit.....my choice had everything to do with sitting headroom. This may not seem like a big deal, but a cabin serves a couple of functions.....obviously sleeping, but also sitting out inclement weather. I enjoy reading anchored out, that wee bit of scotch and watching the sun rise on a still morning. I am 6' and the sitting headroom in the 20 seems to be just big enough for me. I do worry that the raised cabin and light weight will make it a handful in close quarters, but I also have experience with water ballast and I think it will help a lot while not making the boat heavy to tow.

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No problem single handing the 20.3. All my mainsail lines are lead to the cockpit, all the loads are very low. Can't imagine the 17 being any easier! Unless the 17 has a coffee maker.....

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I built my CS 17 'Lively' in 2007 and have sailed her solo most of the time.  I do beach camping for a few days at a time. I had a canvas cabin made for her and it works very well with almost too much headroom.  I made a conscious decision to go for a lot of headroom which I have since regretted because I cannot sail with the cabin up.  So I would recommend the CS 17 III or a CS 17 with a canvas cabin that is low enough to sail with it up.

 

I love my CS 17 and have sailed her solo in winds from 0 to 25 knots and felt confident at all speeds.  I have double reefs set up on the sails.  If money is a concern, the 17 with canvas cabin would definitely be less expensive.

 

Someone mentioned it but I want to emphasize that trailer launching and retrieval should definitely be a consideration.  I don't like to think about it much but your physical condition and not your age should be considered also. I am 75 but am in good physical condition so far.  I am not sure I would want to deal with the larger boats.

 

Graham knows how to design a boat.  Any of his boats would satisfy your needs.

 

See the photos with my cabin.

 

 

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That's the point I was trying to make Dale, once over 17' a seasoned skipper can handle the boat solo at the ramp, but it can be a chore, with contrary currents and winds, screwing with you desires, to get it on the trailer's centerline. Smaller boats, like the 17 are easier to manhandle in difficult situations, while wrestling with the boat.

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How often did you wrestle with your C&C 30 at a boat ramp (solo), in a contrary wind, a fair bit of chop and a current working against you?

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Our only problems on our boat, a CS20.3 has been at the boat ramp!  I can be a handful to get on the trailer in a crosswind and a bit of chop.  Undersail, a "breeze"! 

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I'd be leaning to the CS17.3.  But I keep hearing Graham tell me that a 20 is only three (or was it four?) more sheets of plywood.  But if Graham can cruise with an outboard and still stow a folding bicycle aboard, what the heck!

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