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shop safety tricks


meester

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Hi All, 

 

There has been some discussion of the hazards of epoxy dust the cell-o-fill thread, so in the spirit of the epoxy tricks thread and the painting tricks thread I'd like to propose a thread on boat shop safety.

 

I see shop hazards falling into a few different categories:

1) dust of different types

2) chemical fumes

3) heavy stuff  (like flipping the hull)

4) sharp tools

5) trips and falls

 

There might not be that much to share about the sharp tools and tripping hazards, and I think that there has probably been good discussion of some of the other topics in other threads.   I'm hoping that at least we can assemble links to those posts here so that they can be found easily.

 

---------------

 

Let me start of by asking for advice on on a respirator.  It's time to start sanding epoxy.

 

I think there are a lot of us boat-building folks who sport beards, and that makes it tough to get a good seal around your face so that the air has to go through the filters.   I did some web searching on the topic yesterday evening  and I learned a few things.  On the whole, it seems that beards and respirators don't work well together.  OSHA doesn't actually forbid beards with respirators.  However, to get clean air, the alternative to shaving seems to be a positive pressure hood gizmo where breathing air is actually pumped in.  Bah. Razors are simpler & way cheaper.

 

Well, whaddyaknow.    I started off with safety and ended up with personal grooming.    Anyone care to get this thread back on topic?

 

 

Bob McMichael

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

On respirators, I think the one I use is something along the lines of this one:

 

http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW/ref=pd_sim_328_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1JC0MZ8YVPCN7RZBM4ZZ

 

It fits tight, you breath through it (vs. around it as you do with paper masks, which are essentially 100% worthless). One of my big problems if I'm wearing a mask of this (or any) type and safety glasses, is the glasses fog up. For power sanding fiberglass, with potential for microscopic glass shards to go airborne and get into your eyes, a mask of this type with built in face shield might not be a bad idea, but those get pricy in a hurry.

 

For those doing something that requires melting lead, I'd suggest you not even consider doing that without a full on face shield of some type. I can't imagine what it would be like to have a lead come flying out of the pot to hit me in the face or in the eye.

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I've got something like that. But every time after I sand, I get sawdust in my handkerchief when I blow my nose . Sorry for the visual download, but this tells me that my beard is preventing me from getting a good seal. Seems to be effective enough for organic vapors , but it doesn't work well for me with fine dust.

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I know it was mentioned before, but in case it sailed right past without notice, SHART TOOLS are essential. I would suspect a large majority of woodshop/workshop injuries would result from tools that are not sharp. Not only are dull tools less efficient (and fun) to work with, but the additional effort required to get anything done means loss of control over what is happening, or about to happen. This also extends to powertools, like saws, etc. Sharp tools will cut. Dull power saw blades will stop cutting and start grabbing and that may mean either a flying hand powered saw or tool, or if a table saw, the piece you are cutting goes airborne and it could be coming right back at you. BTW, related, all table saws used for ripping should have a riving knife/splitter in place, or else the piece you are ripping may soon be coming back at you.

 

Power tools, like table saws, etc. also need to be "tuned". Square fences mean square cuts, etc. If you are getting burnt edges on your cuts, something is out of whack and you need to find out what it is. A while back I bought a nice used panel saw and it took me the better part of 2 hours to go through the manual to double check all the settings on it to make sure it was working as it was intended, and yes, some of them were off a bit. A new blade and a tuned machine made a world of difference in how well it worked.

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I agree on the sharp tools. I also think woodworking is a lot like sailing. Mistakes are made when you are tired and unprepared. Ship-shape applies to your shop.  I always do my sanding in the evening and straighten up the shop because I'm a morning person. I do all the cutting and harder stuff when my mind is as sharp as possible and clutter is minimal (morning). As for respiration apparatus.....if you are honking sawdust into your handkerchief, imaging what your lungs look like. Wood can be carcinogenic and you need to fix that. I have a dust collector, air cleaner and still wear a respirator, never a dust mask because I can't get a good seal. It's annoying, but after awhile you get used to it. If I had a beard, I'd get that positive air thing.

 

Take Care,

Steve

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I bought the mask Peter suggested. While the concept is interesting, I found the nose clip impossibly uncomfortable.Before plopping down &44 for the mask I would wear the nosecclip for 15 minutes in the store if you can find one and see how you like it.

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I think SHART tools are usually found in the Depends aisle ;-)

I know it was mentioned before, but in case it sailed right past without notice, SHART TOOLS are essential. I would suspect a large majority of woodshop/workshop injuries would result from tools that are not sharp. Not only are dull tools less efficient (and fun) to work with, but the additional effort required to get anything done means loss of control over what is happening, or about to happen. This also extends to powertools, like saws, etc. Sharp tools will cut. Dull power saw blades will stop cutting and start grabbing and that may mean either a flying hand powered saw or tool, or if a table saw, the piece you are cutting goes airborne and it could be coming right back at you. BTW, related, all table saws used for ripping should have a riving knife/splitter in place, or else the piece you are ripping may soon be coming back at you.

 

...

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Peter really cool and I personally thanks ya for the inclusion of the information on the breather.  Anyone using should buy multiple filters... these might be good for 3 to 4 hours tops I believe.  I use goggles and duo filter half mask when I have concerns.....I couldn't grow facial hair on a bet and two weeks notice.  Just fuzz that itches the crap out of my neck and sticker on the chin.

 

Saying that I do believe that the topic is very important.  I happen to be a Safety Professional, currently working in the wood products industry.  We use a lot of dust masks with double head straps which improve fit and protection and we use double filter organic half masks for most particle exposures and off gassing of VOCs (volatile organic compounds like soft pine cooked resins, etc.).   As to wood toxicities there are some, mostly with exotic tropical species but some issues are associate with the following woods:  giant sequoia, cork oak, some maples, redwood, hemlock (investigate this group of wood before use), beech and oak.  Cancers associated with working are associated with very long term exposures 30 to 45 years with no protection and are nasal passage related.  Protect your self regardless of wood species.  Nothing like blowing gross wood chips from yer snout at the dinner table and this type of exposure can result in high sensitivities to some wood species over even a short period of time.  Head aches and sinus infections are not uncommon.

 

Sanding fiberglass requires anyone with a lick of sense to wear excellent eye protection like snug fitting goggles or a ventilated air forced two filter hood.  These hoods can be bought with a battery powered fanny pack where the air filters mount and feed the hood.  Two filter half mask and goggles are fine as well.  This material in the lungs is not a good thing EVER.  Getting micro glass in the eyes is an irritant at the least but a large imbedded particle can be serious.  Use ear plugs to keep this crap out of your ears and reduce noise levels from power tools is always recommended (said the deaf man).  (ear muffs with good music can be cool and energizing as well, keep the volume reasonable even with you metal heads.

 

If your tools are not sharp and in good repair (including: handles, shafts, grips, operating components, electrical cords, clean, grease and oil free etc.,  they are not tools they are HAZARDS, end of story!

 

Background: 30 plus years including Nuclear Safety Engineer, Electrical Safety Engineer, Chemical Safety Specialist, Expert in Process Safety Management,(I don't like that expert word but it is what I did for 15 years), Safety Management in Nuclear, Oil, Chemical/Wood products including papermills.  This might even why it has taken me 6 years to finish our CS 20, hull number 104. 

 

In spite off all the warnings there is a lot of great joy and fun in the adventure of working with wood.  Your Safety is extremely important to you and more importantly your family

 

Best and Be Careful

 

Jim A

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Jim,

Some feel it's not macho or always necessary to use all that safety equipment. Maybe they feel foolish using it. The way I see it, if I make myself sick by exposure to something, and this equipment was hanging on a hook in my shop, then who's the bigger fool? I try to take it off the hook, and use the darned stuff.

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Hi all!

 

Thanks for all your helpful posts.  

 

I ended up buying a 3M respirator with the (very macho) pink filter cartridges, and I can tell I'm getting a much better seal than I ever have before with the paper masks.   I feel confident that this was a step in the right direction, but my ignorance is not defeated so easily.

 

The respirator I bought was "for home use."  Other, similar looking masks were for professional use "only."   What's the difference?   Is there a reason that a pro mask would offer less protection for a home user?

 

I'm also curious how ya know when it's time to change the filters.   Unfortunately, the literature that came with my respirator appears to have been written by lawyers who were paid by the word, and I can't make sense of it.   Jim A. (Many thanks for your post, Jim.) has suggested 3 or 4 hours of use before changing out the filters on the Duckworks breather, which is much sooner than I would have guessed.

 

As a mountaineering instructor once told me, "If you make good choices, you get to go again."  

 

Bob

 

Edit:  I think I may have found an answer to my own question about when to change the filters.  At least if you're just filtering dust, it's when it gets hard to breathe.  Filtering organic vapors is trickier.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/565214O/3m-cartridge-filter-guide-and-brochure.pdf

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Just wanted to respond the your inquiry regarding dust masks.  I have found that sweat, moisture from breathing and free dust end up  forming a barrier that causes the air to push around the outside of the mask more frequently than you would think. You will see it on your face inside the mask before you feel breathing issues, especially around the knobs of yer nose (nostrils for picky folks) and the corners of your mouth where moisture builds.  DUST MASKS are not protection they are comfort reducing crap and that is all.  Think big particle protection.  I require our folks to change dust masts every hour when they take a break.  I often tell them that that is sometimes not enough.   There is no seal just a somewhat snug fit and as debris and moisture build up on the mask the fit is disrupted and the micro particles, which there are many, come in around the edges of the mask.  Okay for some, but  if you're using a dust mask until it's uncomfortable to breath through it this is not a good thing and you will blow wood boogers at the dinner table.  These things are dust masks, very limited protection.  There are better cheap wood dust respirator that will seal and have paper fiber filters, they have a snug fit, can be uncomfortable, some fit well and can be used for 3 to 4 hours.  Without a snug foam type fit or very soft rubber, you are breathing crap you really should not breath.  Have I done it..., YES way too many times and I have developed sensitivities to certain woods, including Douglas  fir, some oaks, walnut for sure and a bit with hickory.  I think old dry hickory loves mold spore and stuff as the grain intertwines (opinion not fact), and it does stinks spectacular at times.   Just be careful and have fun.  Protection is a long term issue, not a short "okay dear" I'll put on my safety glasses, (until you get the heck out of MY shop.  GO WOMAN!)  Think smart, your kids and grandkids are watchen us all.

 

BEST and Be careful and safe for the family ALWAYS

 

 

Jim A

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I'm with Jim on changing frequently. The more life you try to get out of the filter, the more pressure it takes to pass air through the membrane. Eventually, air will rather pass around the sealing face of the mask. As for the organic cartridge, I'm waiting until I smell vapors with the mask on. Hasn't happened yet. Comments?

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Thrillsbe sir when it come to smelling vapors this may often just mean that the mask don't fit correctly.  However if you are testing with yer hands over the air ports when you don the mask and it feels as if yer tongue is getting sucked forward or yer cheeks is sucking in ya probably gots a real good seal.  Iffenn yer smellen organice then ya either gots a bad seal, saturated filters or the wrong filters.  All of which should say..........Hey brain......let's check out what the sam hey is goen on here and at the very least get to fresh air, increase fresh air throughput, and then find the right filters.

 

When using high solvent with VOC compounds or  potentially toxic gasses, fresh air fed breathing apparatus is the only way to go.  Best to find material without this issue.  Not just this last two weeks I stopped jobs where crews were compacting earth with gas powered "stompers", compacters and the CO levels hit 20 PPM in very short order folks got excited as they should have and we shut it down and evacuated all 8 or so from a pit about 5 foot deep on average.    35ppm can cause significant impairment in 30 minutes or so.  100 PPM CO can knock folks down in 30 minutes.  All depends on personal physiology and condition.  Some folks can take 300 ppm CO for 30 minutes before they go down and don't get up.......ever.

 

People talk about carbon dioxide and all the crap hear about on the weather channel or the news with global warming...and other....BS!  I am qualified scientist by training and experimental experience by the way... submarines routinely operate with levels from 4000 to 8000 ppm carbon dioxide atmospheric levels inside and we were all fine.  Don't believe me check it out for yourself............. no discussions.  Please don't screw with organics,  you can get the Safety Data Sheets from the manufacturer for free on demand........do it if you have concerns.  These data sheets have really good safety information and I will be glad to give a basic interpretation of any you are not sure of...NO CHARGE I promise.

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