DURRETTD Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 For those keeping score, here are the average ratings to date: AVERAGE 3.5 1.78 2.6 2.3 2 3 speed resistance/ stability weight rolling storage potential ease of paddling 1 2 3 4 4 2 3 1 3 1 4 2 4 3 2 1 3 1 4 5 2 4 2 1 3 4 1 3 2 4 1 3 2 4 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 Readers threw in two new categories: Rolling and Storage, each of which got one mention. So far it looks like ease of paddling is most highly valued, followed by light weight, then stability. Most of us are least concerned with speed potential. Unfortunately, these numbers don't mean a lot. As I recall from a stats class, "average" is an imaginary representation of a group of numbers. Looks like Jeff needs to design a boat for each of us, each with a difference sequence of priorities. Or, maybe Ravenswood/Curlew cover the ease of paddling niche and Vardo covers the stability niche. I'll run the numbers again after ten more responses - no fair voting twice! Sorry about the formatting. I can't seem to outwit this site's aversion to spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmellow Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Jeff - for similar length kayaks aren't resistance/ease of paddling and speed be linked? My inexperienced votes would be: 1. Resistance 2. Stability 3. Weight 4. Speed For myself, weight is really not an issue for any of your kayaks. Most appear to be 35 lb. and under. That is incredibly light and can be easily handled for transport etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Jeff - for similar length kayaks aren't resistance/ease of paddling and speed be linked? No, not really. Hull shape could make a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 With all the stability talk, I want to be clear, I mean secondary, or maybe in this case ultimate, not primary stability. I don't want to paddle a scow, but I don't want a non-rolling kayak to dip its gunwale too easily. I want the boat to lean a bit, for sure, to cope with chop, or to ease maneuvering, whatever, but I want it to firmly resist at some point. Just to clarify my position, not change my vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 This thread comes closest to a question I have about modifying the Fire Fly for greater speed. I just purchased the FF plans and, when built, will be paddling it mainly for exercise on a local reservoir with very occasional trips to the West Coast. So my question is this: How narrow can the Fire Fly be built and still end up with the stability of the Slingshot, which is shown as less stable than the Fire Fly. Would a reduction in beam (and no other changes) to say 20 inches from the 22 make any noticeable difference at sprint and near-sprint speeds? And where would you reduce the beam over the length of the boat to maintain the same prismatic coefficient? I'm pretty sure Jeff went through all these considerations and calculations before settling on the final design of the Fire Fly, but I would be really interested in hearing his thought process... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted December 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 So my question is this: How narrow can the Fire Fly be built and still end up with the stability of the Slingshot, which is shown as less stable than the Fire Fly. Would a reduction in beam (and no other changes) to say 20 inches from the 22 make any noticeable difference at sprint and near-sprint speeds? And where would you reduce the beam over the length of the boat to maintain the same prismatic coefficient? First off, I do not support modifications to a boat AT ALL. If you modify a design it is no longer my design and you are on your own then. I will not give advice or support on modified designs. Contrary to popular 'Internet rumors" you can't just scale a boat and expect it to behave the same. It just doen't work that way. Especially one like mine. You can't expect to keep the stringers fair and the boat to assume a correct shape. Hull shape has changed so stringer positions will need to change. If the stringers don't lay correctly the hull may distort over time and 'hog' or assume more rocker. I will address one thing you hit on. Narrowing a boat 2" will decrease stability quite a bit, in most cases and with only minimal reduction in resistance. Unless you like low stability, there is not advantage for it for most of my clients. If you a racer there that gain is worth something but that is not my client base for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Design one for 150 lb. person with 180 lb. displacement , 21'' wide 17' 6'' long and 3'' of freeboard at the back of the cockpit.... All the other aspects will fall into place...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trakka Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Design one for 150 lb. person with 180 lb. displacement , 21'' wide 17' 6'' long and 3'' of freeboard at the back of the cockpit.... All the other aspects will fall into place...... YEP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted December 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Shad, Long Shot, Ravenswood, ...... all of them fit that bill. I use 250 lbs as my calculation point because that is what the Stability Factor calculations are based on. That is not the design displacement. That is just the number that Steve Killian chose to base his calculations on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisian Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I would rate them in the order that you listed them: 1. Ease and speed of construction Weight of the boat. 2. Stability 3 Resistance/ ease of paddling 4. Speed potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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