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meester

CS15 with a lug yawl rig

95 posts in this topic

Are you still planning on going ahead with the yawl plan?  I'm following this thread closely as I'm interested in doing something similar.  I'm also considering a gunter rigged yawl with a self tending jib.  I know that adds the complexity of a stayed mast, but you gain pointing ability over a lugged yawl.  

 

You mentioned earlier in this thread that you calculated CE for the new sailplan.  Did it change your foremast location?  It looks like you kept the off-center centerboard installation as designed, with the yawl rig, couldn't you have put it back on center or are you just keeping your options open?  I assume that the reason for it being off center was because of the ketch rig mast location, but I don't know.  

 

Right now I'm researching a build and trying to decide on whether or not a modified CS is right for me or if I want to try my own design (I doubt I could do better than a CS though).  Alan S pointed me this thread in an email exchange a few weeks back.  

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Hi Mbowser,

 

I can't believe I missed your post for so long.  Apologies for taking so long to reply.

 

My foremast is moved back to about 6" forward of the bulkhead, so yes, it's further aft than in the original.   In moving things around, I kept the centerboard location and Storer's lugsail for the Goat Island Skiff as fixed points.   It sounds like you're aiming for something like the gunter rig on Welsford's Navigator.  I just like the simplicity of the lug rig, and racing is just not in my blood.  I kept hull and the centerboard as designed, so the off-centerboard is where Graham put it.    It has nothing to do with the mizzen (ketch) location.   My guess is that the hull is stronger if you don't cut a big hole in the keel batten.   I also saw an old crabbing boat with the off-center board location at the Chesapeake Maritime Museum, so I kind of like that local history aspect too.

 

I also thought about designing my own hull, and I enjoyed learning about hull shapes and their pros and cons.  Ultimately, though, I decided that it was wiser to spend a few dollars on Graham's accumulated wisdom and Alan's videos and at least get the hull right.   If the rig turns out to be a disaster, I can manage a do-over, but not so with the hull.

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Hi All,

 

An update on my build.  She's now out of the cradle and upside down back on the trailer.   Before the flip, I took a few pics of what I came up with for the main mast step and the mizzen mast step, and I thought I'd post them here for the record, since they're different from normal.  I'm still working through a few ideas for mounting the boomkin, so I'm leaving the last piece of seat top in the stern off for now.   I'm excited to own a boat with parts named "boomkin" and "snotter."   Someday, maybe I'll figure out a reason to own a baggywrinkle, too.   :)

 

 post-4524-0-81794000-1463704811_thumb.jpgpost-4524-0-08990200-1463704845_thumb.jpgpost-4524-0-45076000-1463704867_thumb.jpg

 

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Speaking of "butt-ugly honest," (Hi Don!)

 

Stuff I learned and a plea for advice:

 

I glassed my hull yesterday, and it was mostly a success, but also I learned a few things.  So for any first-timers like me who may be following along, Here are a few things that I learned:

  • It's good to have the epoxy curing slow enough that you can finish before it gets hard.  I had a couple of places where I had a wet edge harden up, and that caused some quarter-sized bubbles.   I tried getting rid of the bubbles by mashing them down in the partially-hard, very sticky phase, but some of the bubbles were very stubborn.
  • If I had a do-over, I'd leave the final trimming of the glass around the transom corners until I got close to those places with the epoxy.  I ended up short at one corner and patched it up with a strip of fiberglass tape.  I think it should be fine, but it was frustrating for a while.
  • When frustrated, do not slap your forehead.  :angry:  :blink:  :(   (I came close.)

Now for you experienced guys, what do you recommend for me to recover?  As you can see in the photo, the bubbles are mostly along the keel line where I started.

 

post-4524-0-31236900-1464538006_thumb.jpg

 

Cheers,

Bob

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When good and dry, grind them down and fill with putty. You can place a little hunk of fabric in there if you want, but I wouldn't bother. You'll be applying a bunch of filler to fair and smooth the hull anyway, so just think of this as the beginning of the process.

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Hi Guys,

 

An update on the CS15 lug yawl Frankenstein cludge monster boat:

 

The hull has been faired, sanded, glassed, primed, sanded, primed, sanded, primed, painted, sanded, painted, sanded, painted, sanded and painted.  Despite that, it's a "20 foot finish" except for one really excellent spot near the starboard bow.  

 

I used Interlux perfection for the bottom and topsides and the grey boottop is rustoleum.  I used a lime green masking tape by 3M and I was very happy with the sharp lines I got.

 

post-4524-0-74389300-1472602060_thumb.jpgpost-4524-0-03552600-1472602060_thumb.jpg

 

Next, flip it back over and finish the inside.   I can't wait to see it upright on the trailer.

 

Bob

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There it is!  Upright on the trailer.  Very pleased.  I have to put in keel rollers & such on the trailer before it's road-ready.   ( and grease the hubs.)

post-4524-0-04310400-1472845640_thumb.jpg

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post-4524-0-43168200-1474634388_thumb.jpgpost-4524-0-07333200-1474634389_thumb.jpg

 

Fore deck on and working on the coamings.  For a steam box, I taped a section of aluminum dryer duct to an electric kettle and wrapped the duct in an old sleeping bag.  I think this is my favorite of all the improvised steam boxes I've tried.   The dryer duct collapses back down to about half the full length and stores easily.  

 

It turns out that a genius steam box is not enough.  There's a right way and a wrong way.

 

The right way:post-4524-0-99745900-1474839395_thumb.jpg

 

And the wrong way:post-4524-0-15931800-1474839902_thumb.jpg

 

Gotta go get some more wood. :(

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What's the latest on your urge to use a balanced lug rig on a CS15?  After sailing my cat ketch rig, I now believe that all other rigs are inferior.  Why on earth would I voluntarily opt for a rig that has more spars, can slap me in the head while tacking, and require extreme force to keep the luff from misbehaving?  Makes no sense.  

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What's the latest on your urge to use a balanced lug rig on a CS15?  After sailing my cat ketch rig, I now believe that all other rigs are inferior.  Why on earth would I voluntarily opt for a rig that has more spars, can slap me in the head while tacking, and require extreme force to keep the luff from misbehaving?  Makes no sense.  

Inferior is a tough word to quantify.  A sloop is more efficient to weather.  But I agree with the rest.

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Wow.  Should I be feeling defensive?   If you want to know my reasons for choosing a lug, just ask.

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Being defensive, like being offended is a choice that you make or not for yourself.  I always make an effort not to be either.   Your topic was labelled as a question, so some of us replied.  Please feel free to give your opinion.  It is after all your thread.  Just keep in mind that we may challenge your reasoning.  This is what happens in forums and why they are so useful.

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Thrilsbee, I'm glad you're enjoying your boat and the the cat ketch rig is making you so happy.

 

I have this long-range vision of using this boat for dinghy cruising in the Chesapeake and beyond.  Steve Early, (http://logofspartina.blogspot.com), Roger Barnes with the UK's Dinghy Cruising Association and the shallow water sailors (www.shallowwatersailor.us) have been great inspirations to me.   I'm not so keen on racing, but maybe I'd even do a Water Tribe event someday.  We'll see. 

 

My priorities are 1. Safety 2. Comfort and distant 3. Speed.

 

Actually for me, and maybe others too, safety and comfort aren't really separate.   Hungry, dehydrated, scared, cold, hot, tired, scared all mean stupid.   And stupid means not safe, especially for a guy who doesn't have decades of experience.  Fortunately, all of those uncomfortable, potentially dangerous conditions can be cured by stopping to eat, drink, rest, dress, reef etc.   So, to be happy, safe & comfortable, I figure I need the boat to stop.  I'll need to heave to to take a breather and gather my wits out on the water.

 

One of the reasons I like the lug yawl setup is that it heaves to well.  The balance lug is only attached to the mast in two places, it goes up and down really easily, with minimum friction.   To heave to, the main comes down and the small mizzen is pulled flat.   I have read and heard from experienced people that things become calm and quiet.   Perfect for eating, resting, thinking.   I assumed (should have asked) that it would be difficult to flatten the cat ketch's mizzen enough to keep it from flogging.  Maybe that's not the case, but the mizzen on a cat ketch is still a significant amount of sail to have up.

 

The downhaul tension is surely greater than what's needed with the sprit, but it's nothing compared to the forces that sloop sailors apply with their vangs, so it's not hard to make things strong enough.

 

Yes, there's a boom.   Most sailboats have booms.   Are booms that awful?

 

The center thwart has no mast sticking through it.  I should be able to sit on it or row from it at any time.

 

The lug is only attached to the mast at two points, so it goes up and down quickly and easily as I mentioned above.  It's dead simple to rig, too. The price is one more light spar, but one that stays attached to the sail.

 

I hope I've made the case that a lug yawl rig makes some logical sense for the purposes I have in mind.   At least more than none at all. 

 

At any rate, I made the masts, sewed the sails and built the boat.  We'll find out soon how it all works out.

 

Peace.

 

Bob

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   It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into it and you'll end up with a very fun boat - And my hat's off to anyone who makes their own sails (I've done it too, but not very well).

   As always, I'm looking forward to the pictures.

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