SOF in the surf?

[indie]

Hi All,

 

I've been looking at a stitch and glue kayak for a while but interested also in a SOF version. My question is, how do the SOF boats handle the surf? I typically have to negotiate surf to get out to my paddling grounds and not really avoidable. It can vary from quite small to around 4 to 5 foot. In all my looking on the net at SOF yaks I have not seen a pic anywhere of one in the surf. 

 

The models I'm considering are the Vardo and the Shad. The Vardo may have the edge as I do fish from the kayak. Also thinking about adapting the technology to make a few lights! 

 

Thanks for the assistance. Brad.

[Kudzu]

Water could care less what the boat is made of. It is all about the skill of the paddler ..... for the most part. Boats hull design would have more effect than the material it is made of.  Living inland I don't have much experience in surf.

[Hirilonde]

If you look at the designs of kayaks used to play in the surf you will find that they are terrible for just about anything else.  I would think what you want is a good ocean kayak design and learn to deal with the surf best you can.  Jeff already answered the part about construction methods. 

[DURRETTD]

Boats designed to play in the surf generally have lots of rocker so they can turn rapidly to catch and stay on a wave. They are also generally a little wider and have fuller bows above the waterline. I see a lot of tourists who come to the beach to use their whitewater boats in the surf. To rephrase Hirilonde, they're specialized, but you can paddle many of them about as well as any open water boat if they have a skeg.

 

Boats designed for the ocean (or other open water) are generally narrower than surf boats and have less rocker; they're generally designed to go straight. It's hard work taking them up a narrow, winding creek.

 

If you're not intending to spend all your time playing in the surf, most any boat will get you through the surf. Most any boat can also be fun for occasional surfing. As Jeff said, it's about the skill of the paddler. I've surfed long, skinny boats - sometimes with more success than others - and short, wide ones - sometimes with more success than others. All were fun. All were wet.

[indie]

Hi all and thanks for the replies. I suppose I should have been clearer with my question. Let me put it this way. Is the SOF construction method as strong as say fibreglass or stitch and glue for a kayak of the same size and shape etc? Surf will test the strength of any kayak and wondering if the SOF method will stand up to it as well as the others. Now I'm no guru in the surf and have had plenty of practice getting rolled. I'm getting better for sure and would like a SIK that I could comfortably go have a play in the surf with and hopefully improve my skills. It would be advantageous to know that I'm not heading out on the maiden voyage into imminent disaster! 

 

Thanks again, Brad.

[kayak278]

Like Dave said above, boats designed for the surf aren't very good for other uses....specifically tracking straight and fast.  A few years ago, I built a North Alaska Retrieval SOF kayak, sometimes called a Recovery Kayak.  The basis for the design was that the native seal hunters switched to a shorter, wider, more stable kayak when firearms started being used for hunting, rather than the harpoons.  With the use of firearms, they no longer needed the stealth and speed that the longer, narrower kayaks offered, they only needed a stable kayak to go retrieve their catch.   That being said, the North Alaska Retrieval design performs very well in the surf due to the extreme rocker, and it is a very stable platform.  It was a fun project to build as a woodworker, but it is not a practical, comfortable design for extended paddling.  I think you would be best served to look at one of Jeff's tried and true designs, any of which would be fine in the surf.....it's amazing how the SOF design and construction methods "give" as you surf over waves.  The built-in flexibility of the SOF design almost feels like a shock absorption system when you are cresting waves and going down into the trough!

 

 Because the recovery kayak is not the most efficient to paddle for longer distances, I have relocated the kayak to a permanent home hanging in my classroom....my 6th grade students love asking about it and I'm pretty sure I'm the only teacher they've ever had with kayaks hanging from the ceiling.  In fact, I also have hung an old fuselage frame and I reference both boats by giving the students an analogy about "being uncovered".  I tell them that when we look at each other, and see our "put-together" exteriors, that we're not letting others see our blemishes and faults that are on our insides....hence the covered kayak and the "uncovered" frame.  I then go on to tell them that it is OK to let their guards down, to show their imperfections and show others that they aren't perfect.  At this point, I reference the uncovered frame and show them all of the mistakes and problems with it, telling them that even though there were problems with the frame, it still operated fine in the water.  

 

I think our digital, Instagram/Facebook/Twitter, media-centric culture is hard on pre-teens because all they see is the highlight reel that people post online...the kids end up thinking that they need to have everything perfect and all put together, and that it's not ok to show any kind of fault or weakness...or ask for help.

 

WOW...can you tell that school starts for me tomorrow?  Sorry, I didn't mean to highjack the thread and go into a positive thinking message 

 

-Matt

 

 

 

 

[Kudzu]

I have to fall back to my standard line of not having much saltwater experience. But if you talking serious, big water surfing then I think a traditional style SOF would be a better choice. with all the small closely spaced ribs, i would expect they would take serious trashing better. there is more ribs to spread the load around. 

 

For a more typical surfing I would expect the Fuselage Frame to hold up just fine. So my answer is it just depends on what size surf your in.

[Ekapi]

For just going in and out through moderate surf, Jeff's boats should do fine. Skin on frame construction is quite strong, though for serious heavy seas work I would go with a traditionally built boat rather than a fuselage frame. Traditional boats have the loads distributed  better IMO, keelson and stringer loads are spread over 20 to 30 ribs rather than 6-8 ply frames and your gunwales are generally beefier, at least for the Greenland type boats. Traditional boats are a bit heavier than fuseframe boats...in the real world, most 17-18 ft. Greenlands weight in at 35 to 40 lbs or a bit more. Still much lighter than glass, ply, or plastic boats.

 

 As designed, I wouldn't want to subject a fuselage frame boat to a serious washing machine event in heavy surf, but they are more than strong enough for  the use that most people will ever subject them to.

 

  It would be a relatively simple matter to beef a boat up for regular service in heavy conditions with a very modest weight penalty. This is what *I* would do if I wanted to make a dedicated surf boat in fuselage frame style.

 

 First, I'd increase the scantling size of the gunwales....go to 2" wide and make them of doug fir or a good straight grained hard pine. Both are stiffer, and tougher than WRC and much less likely to break. I would also make my keelson and stringers and deck stringers from good straight vertical grain doug fir or similar wood for the same reason. Since doug fir is stiffer and stronger than WRC, you can reduce the scantling size to offset *some* of the weight penalty. Last, I'd peg and lash in a couple of light deck beams between frames both fore and aft. This is simple to do, won't alter the boat's lines or take up any more interior space and adds alot of support to the deck structure. You can make these from WRC or redwood to save weight. You might add 5 lbs or so to your build doing this.

 

 Whatever you do, if you are going in and out of surf, you MUST have good reserve flotation. A fully swamped kayak in surf can be LETHAL. If you are halfway in and halfway out in the middle of a wet exit, a wave can drive you and your semi attached boat right down to the bottom with enough force to kill you. Invest in good quality, properly fit flotation bags.