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CS17 mk3 hull #3 "Carlita"


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Graham,

It looks like you've placed the oar lock pin ~30" aft of BH3, and have dropped it a few inches below the top of the coaming there. Are you expecting to pull the mizzen out of the way for extended rowing, or could it stay in? It seems like it might be in the way.
 
If you'd pull the mast for serious rowing, I wonder about moving the pin even further aft, and sitting on the thwart to row? With the oar so high above the waterline, would it make sense to angle the oarlock outward? Seems like the oar could be a little shorter that way. What length oars are you using?
 
I'm excited by so many aspects of the 17 - trailerability with a small family car being one of them. Very cool!
Fred
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Fred,

 

The oarlocks are in the normal position, about 12" aft of the bridge deck. They do clear the mizzen mast. She is a sail boat first and a row boat second but I did row in and out of checkpoint 1 during the EC without much trouble. I cut down the coaming to help with oar length.

 

I used Southern Skimmers oars for the race which are a little under 10', I have forgotten their exact length but the oar blades stuck out the stern. If you look at the self steering video you can see how far the blades stuck out. Now that it has cooled down here and the boat is mostly finished I can do things like refine my rowing system. 

 

One of the aggravations of living here is dealing with hurricanes. This week Mathew has consumed a huge amount of time. First it had a bulls-eye right over us, then it was going to curve east long before it reached us. Yesterday they kept moving the track further north toward us. The overnight track seems to have stabilized and it's strength has diminished some. It looks like we might dodge a bullet and just get some wind, lots of rain and some high water.

 

We do not expect the water to reach Irene levels which put 50" of water in the lower shop and 16" in the upper shop. We have moved everything up that can be moved so we should be okay.

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post-127-0-21752800-1475952816_thumb.jpgpost-127-0-74630300-1475952866_thumb.jpg

 

Tiger,

 

I would rather deal with hurricanes than fires or shovel snow etc.. It is exhilarating to feel the power as you lean into the wind.

 

It looks like we might dodge the worst of it. We were at the waterfront around noon and the wind had a good roar to it and I had to lean into the gusts. The wind was east south east and gusting at about the middle 30's and the waves were just breaking onto the shore in places. Of course Mandy thought it was great and had a couple of swims. At 2: 30 there was little change.

 

Some houses have lost power in the county and we have had our lights flicker so we might be in a blackout as the storm passes.

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We lost power for about an hour and I was about ready to hook up the generator, when it came back on. A buddy that live a few miles away lost power for about 7 hours, but that's the worst of it. I suspected it would move a touch farther offshore than predictions, and it did around 11 pm Thursday night. This saved central and north Florida. It also looks to have been a gift to Georgia and South Carolina too. I have lots of limbs to pick up and it looks like someone aimed a wood chipper into my backyard, but that's nothing unusual. I'm glad 'y'all had an easy go of it too.

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  • 1 month later...

Carlita gets a new Suzuki.

 

It just fits, there is at least a couple of mm clearance in the critical places. It is all mounted but have not had a chance to try it yet.

 

I was quite pleased with the quality and finish. I ran a magnet over the lower end and all of the bolts are post-127-0-70851700-1480746963_thumb.jpgStainless steel except for the tilt pin and a couple of screws in the throttle. I would have been happy to give them another $10 to swap out the few plated steel components.

post-127-0-30407600-1480747007_thumb.jpg

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I'm on the verge of buying a new outboard, so I want to talk about the Suzuki outboards.  Chick, you say that you love yours.  Yet, Jay Knight has nothing but problems with starting his, because he's laying it on its side.  Because of this, in part, I'm leaning towards the Mercury/Tohatsu brand.  They cost more, but I've heard nothing about these problems with that brand.  Would you all please educate me?

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Don,

 

I have only run mine once, yesterday so I cannot comment on reliability. All 4 strokes have an oil filled crankcase. It is critical that you do not allow the oil to to run to the head and leak through one of the valves and fill the cylinder rendering the motor inoperable until it is removed. Suzuki tells you that you must lay the motor down on the port side or tiller side down and that the leg must never be higher than the head. When the motor is put in the aft hatch, the leg is aft with the head forward, because of the rocker in the bottom it is possible to have the head lower than the leg unless you have some sort of cradle to raise the head. 

 

When the motor is on the transom and raised. the head is pointing up with the crankcase down. This seems to me like the best way to stow the motor. It appears that the reason why they do not recommend stowing the motor this way is that they have not built any support into the cover for resting on the floor. The carrying handle as designed is up and when you lower the motor through the hatch by the handle, the motor is in the best attitude to prevent the oil issue. I plan to stow mine this way with some sort of cradle to give the cover good support and make sure that the leg is below the head. 

 

When the motor is raised on the transom, if you study the motor you will see that they have angled the motor 10 - 15 degrees to port to keep the exhaust port within the cover. This puts the head lower than the crank case when laid down on the port side as they recommend.

 

THE BIG PROBLEM is that boats do not sail level so we need to cover extreme angles of heel. Even on the road with the motor stowed out of site, the boat will not always be level. I think that my reasoning is the most sound for our purpose.

 

When Jay was here he had to change out the spark plug to get the motor to run. The spark plug was made by NGK who are about as good as it gets. I do not think that we can blame Suzuki for the spark lug. As an optimist I will carry a spare spark plug Try to keep clean fresh fuel and try not to put the head below the leg and hope that I have good reliability.

 

The manual says to break in the motor for 10 hours and for the first 1 hour not to go over 1/2 rpm and 3/4 rpm for the rest. I cannot tell 1/2 rpm but yesterday running easy, Carlita was doing 4.2 knots. I could not resist a short burst to maybe 3/4 rpm and saw 5 knots. 

 

If I can cruise in the high 4's to 5 knots I will be pretty happy with it.

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The best way to break in these engines is to vary the RPM's across a reasonable range, for the first 15 - 30 minutes of initial operation. Don't let the engine sit at any particular RPM setting for very long, constantly move it up and down, again for the first break in period. Most just place the engine in a test barrel and break it in this way, varying the throttle settings every ~1/2 minute, so you get even wear patterns on  the reciprocating parts. After the initial break in, you can run the engine up to about 3/4" WOT, which is close to the average cruising speed for most anyway. 10 hours of this seems excessive, but I can understand way they suggest it. I don't think I've ever used this full amount of break in time, once the initial break in is established, but I do go easy on it for the first few outings. Lastly, change the oil after 10 - 15 hours and put in a regular oil (with new filter if equipped). Most come with a break in oil, which tend to not have the usual assortment of cleaning agents, anti-coagulants  and other goodies, regular oils do. Check the contents of the oil filter, looking for shiny bits of metal, which will appear as a metal flake sort of thing. drain the oil through a coffee or paint straining filter. It's not unusual to find a little metal in the oil, but a lot is an indication something's not right. My understanding is these newer engines are pre-broken in and this stuff is unnecessary, but if so, why the gentle treatment for the first several hours recommendation in their manual. It's cheaper to be safe, then have a tossed rod after 50 hours.

 

If an engine is left too long on its side, head down, it will fill the chamber, as Graham has suggested and this will hydrolock the engine at least and possibly break stuff (rods, pistons, cranks) at worse. If this is suspected, remove the plug and drain off the oil. Afterward, slowly pull the starting rope, to advance the piston to the top of it's stroke and drain any remaining oil. Odds are, you can reinstall the plug, top up the oil and after the smoke settles on startup, it'll be fine, maybe without a fouled plug. Ditto, the spare plug that Graham mentioned. It's old school and cheap insurance, from a day when it wasn't all that uncommon to need a spare, just to get back home and is still valid today.

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Thanks, Graham and Paul . . .

The transport engine cradle that I made has the engine part higher than the prop-end even though the boat's bottom slopes slightly up going aft. But I oriented my engine-end cradle to have the tiller down as recommended by Suzuki. I think I will change that (new cradle) so the carrying handle is up as Graham suggests.

BTW, my Suzuki came "dry" with a BIG WARNING: "Be sure to add oil" to the proper level BEFORE STARTING.

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As I've mentioned elsewhere, my Suzuki piston filled with oil lying flat on the "correct" side for a lengthy period.  One reason seemed to be that the crankcase had been filled to the max, rather than just to the minimum.  Fixing it was, unfortunately, not easy and required a trip to the dealer.  The dealer, in turn, who admittedly has a self-interest, was unable/unwilling to describe to me how I could fix this on my own.  I did manage to do it later, when it locked again -- grrr -- but it took a lot of oil spilling, tipping and drying time over a period of days.  A weekend trip likely would have been ruined if I had needed the motor.  Hence my resolve to make good oars.

 

I am now storing the motor straight up, clamped to a sawhorse, with less oil, and at least it is not hydrolocking.  When I stow it in the boat,  I plan to position it as Graham described, horizontally with the rear of the motor up, rather than on its side.   Bottom line, it requires a lot of thought and care. I think, for example, it makes a difference whether, when stored on the "correct" side, it is tipped slightly forward or slightly back.  Both options are available. (But I'm not planning to use either.)

 

I think any of the new four-cycles are susceptible to this problem, although there is a rumor of a new one coming out that supposedly has licked the issue.  I am skeptical.

 

I guess my bottom line is plan to keep the engine vertical as much as possible, such as on the transom, and be very leery of storing it on it's side, despite the mfrs' representations.

 

-

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My situation is slightly different than most.  I will either use this motor while in Fishing Mode (see photo), or leave it home when daysailing.  But, I will also use this motor when pulling my travel trailer, to power my inflatable boat.  So, for weeks on end, this motor will be stowed on its back in my pickup truck bed.  It sounds like the Yamaha has a solution, but I'm confused.  The Yamaha F4 and F6 model specifications state that they have a "wet sump" lubrication system.  The patent calls out a "dry sump" system.  I guess I'm gonna have to call Yamaha tomorrow.  (If I went to a local dealer here in the Appalachian foothills, rattling off patent numbers, it would not be a fruitful experience.)  


My situation is slightly different than most.  I will either use this motor while in Fishing Mode (see photo), or leave it home when daysailing.  But, I will also use this motor when pulling my travel trailer, to power my inflatable boat.  So, for weeks on end, this motor will be stowed on its back in my pickup truck bed.  It sounds like the Yamaha has a solution, but I'm confused.  The Yamaha F4 and F6 model specifications state that they have a "wet sump" lubrication system.  The patent calls out a "dry sump" system.  I guess I'm gonna have to call Yamaha tomorrow.  (If I went to a local dealer here in the Appalachian foothills, rattling off patent numbers, it would not be a fruitful experience.)  

post-3770-0-83848800-1480881559_thumb.jpg

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Don,

 

I agree that your needs are different. We needed light weight and stowability.  Honda owned the small motor market but being air cooled it is substantially noisier than the Suzuki. I also like the fact that the Suzuki has a clutch allowing you have the motor running without it driving the boat. Yamaha is more expensive and heavier. My motor was delivered for $745

 

Once you go up in hp the parameters change.

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I've seen the new Yama setup and I still doubt the engine can remain on it's side, for an extended time without residual sump oil, getting past the ring gaps and also from the inlet port to the reservoir. In normal operation and on transom stowed positions, yes it'll work fine, but leave it for a month on its side and I just doubt it. 

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