SteveKos Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Hello all. I am thinking about what kind of bailer to use in my Spindrift 11. I notice that many people opt for the Andersen self-bailer but I have read about a lot of problems with them leaking, and not being effective unless you can get a decent speed up for them to be effective. Considering the potential problems with sealing and seating the cut-out, and the cost of the bailer itself, whether a simple bucket and sponge would be enough. Considering the design of the Spindrift, there's plenty of floatation and the cockpit isn't very large. I would imagine that even if it was totally swamped, it would still float well, and a minute or two with a hand bailer bucket would get enough water out to get underway. I just use a large sponge on my kayak and it's amazing how much water can be removed quickly with just this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Most of what you have heard about the Anderson bailer is inaccurate. They work very well. I did not use one as my Spindrift is 2 hulls and good places to put them IMO did not exist. The hulls must nest and when sailing I find sitting anywhere but in the bilge is impractical. If I built a regular one like you, I would certainly install one. There are more reasons for using the Anderson bailer than just getting the water out while sailing. When you store the boat upright you can open it to keep the boat empty, or to finish emptying it after hauling it out of the water. I would have liked to leave mine open while towing it (it is a tender to my Renegade). Yes, they do require some care, and remembering to close them during launching and other handling times. I think you will find more people here in favor of one than against. But it is a personal choice. It sounds like you have pretty much decided. I just hope that your decision is made for reasons and not just the opinions of others, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Once upon a time, I seem to recall someone mentioned using a standard transom plug for this. If memory serves, the plan was to put it an inch or so above the waterline. When not being used, it would be out. In case of rain, it would only fill to the waterline, but would keep floating to it's buoyancy level after that. When being towed, it would tend to ride bow up, with any spray or rain water draining out the back. When you wanted to use it, you hopped in, put the drain plug in and bailed out what was left. I keep a Beckson hand pump around for this purpose: http://www.beckson.com/tmpumps.html This is for my nesting Spindrift, which as Dave suggests, is actually two boats. I also got the bright idea once of using PVC pipe, with a valve, through the transom. It might also work somewhere near the centerboard case. Have never tried it. The idea was to run a small elevated loop, with an interior valve in it. Bottom of pipe would be below the waterline. Once water rose to the level of the top loop, it would begin to flow out, and as the boat rose, would continue to siphon out until all the water was gone. With a ball valve in the line, you could close the loop when you were in the boat to prevent it from back filling. I don't know how much speed you need to get it working, but when boats are moving fast enough, they do create a venturi type suction. Back when I had a fishing boat, and I was moving, I could drain water out by pulling the drain plug. It would all be sucked out the back. In some ways, that is similar to what the Anderson Bailer does. If all the piping were to get in the way of rudder gudgeons, a more elegant way to do it would be to run it into the keel itself, with the exit line in the back of the keel. Complicated way to build it, but with epoxy, lots of things are possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Niemann Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Even though my bailer is presently bent and leaking, I agree with Dave. Generally, it has served me well over the 5 or so years I have had it on my CS 17 'Lively'. Either my son or myself bent it getting her off the trailer. Neither one of us will admit it. I put some emergency tape over it on the bottom and did a quite a lot of sailing that way. However, I miss it. When I bring 'Lively' in for a well deserved and needed re-fit and paint, I will fix it. It did work well for removing water while sailing but was also very nice when cleaning up the boat when returning from a sailing trip. I had sent Graham an email indicating the problem and that I wanted to order a new one from him. He graciously replied that I did not need a new one that I can just bend it back to proper shape and then proceeded to explain to me how to do it. For those of you out there who do not know Graham, this is just the kind of great honest guy he is. dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveKos Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Sorry my post does read pretty much like a case against the Andersen bailer rather than a question. Actually I really haven't decided. Sounds like there are good some reasons why they are so popular. I remember when I was much younger and not really interested in sailing at that time a friend had a sailboat that i went out with him on a few times. He had an Andersen in that which I recall worked very well. Are there ant tips re installing it so there are no leakage issues? Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Niemann Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Here is what Graham said in his email. "The bailer can only leak if it is bent or the gasket is not sealing. Both issues are not hard to solve. If you squeeze wire cam lever outward at the aft end, you will pull it out of the holes and the middle part will come down, aft and out. You can now inspect it to see if it is bent or the gasket is worn out. The gasket is made out of neoprene which you can scrounge from somewhere an cut another one out with scissors. I have made them out of an old wet suit.Let me know if it works. I hate to see you buy a new bailer if you can fix your old one. The one I have in Southern Skimmer was scrunched into the trailer and now does not leak a drop." dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveKos Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Thanks for that Dale. Looks like the info I have read on other forums is biased to the negative. I will get hold of an Andersen bailer then and get it installed. Still happy to be guided re installation tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Potts Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 I sailed my boat for a while before adding the bailer, so I have experience with and without. I definitely prefer to have the bailer. When new it worked great and didn't leak. I had to be moving more than about 3.5knots for it to remove water, but below that speed no water comes on board (and it's REAL easy to get a CS17 to go faster than that.) I bent it once when putting the boat in the water and then it leaked until I did exactly what Graham described - I thought it was way too bent to fix, but it worked fine after I straightened it. After I fixed it there was no noticeable leak even on multi-day trips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Anderson bailers are mechanically fastened, but it is one of the few pieces of hardware I think benefit from an adhesive sealant. I would use Sikaflex 291-LOT. It is fairly adhesive, but should you have to remove the bailer for replacement or re-install it could be removed carefully without damage to the boat. Unlike if you used 3M 5200. I never use silicone. If you don't clean silicone off perfectly you will never get anything else to stick, other sealants, paint or varnish of any kind, and try removing it completely if you question my opinion. Well installed hardware can last a long time, but nothing on a boat is forever. I am a big fan of repairable with minimal hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 I will try to find and post. But see PARs comments on I believe MattP thread regarding installation......good one as usual.....crazy day and on the run or I would find and copy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hi Steve, I installed the Anderson mini bailer on my spindrift 12 and it works great but not fast enough for the way I sail. So I just picked up the Anderson super max bailer last week and will install it sometime soon. Ronstan import them in Australia and you can order one from your local chandlery. http://andersenwinches.com/aw/bailers.asp?RnID=411 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveKos Posted May 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hi Steve, I installed the Anderson mini bailer on my spindrift 12 and it works great but not fast enough for the way I sail. So I just picked up the Anderson super max bailer last week and will install it sometime soon. Ronstan import them in Australia and you can order one from your local chandlery. http://andersenwinches.com/aw/bailers.asp?RnID=411 I was thinking of the mini for the Spindrift 11. I don't quite know, but I'm not an aggressive sailer so I don't imagine I will need something too large. Is there a guide somewhere as to which size they recommend for various boat hull sizes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennieG Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 I will try to find and post. But see PARs comments on I believe MattP thread regarding installation......good one as usual.....crazy day and on the run or I would find and copy... Paul's comment: Nice work. Do yourself a favor and round over the inside edges of the hole, cut in the bottom for the Anderson bailer. You may also want to consider waxing the bailer body ( I use regular 'ol Turtle Wax, several coast), where it sticks up through the planking, temporarily bolting it in place and pouring slightly thickened epoxy around it, so the end grain is covered and sealed. The wax will let you remove the bailer and bed it properly with an adhesive sealant, after the epoxy is cured and you'll have a precisely form fitting hole for it, that also protects the planking. Keep up the good work and post some more building shots . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
805gregg Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 What's wrong with a bucket and a sponge? No leak problems, no moving parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dufour Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 ... I had to be moving more than about 3.5knots for it to remove water, but below that speed no water comes on board (and it's REAL easy to get a CS17 to go faster than that.).. . Huh. Ken's experience makes be doubt my installation on my CS17, because I can't get it to start pulling out water until I'm over 6 knots. And if I'm under six knots, it tends to float upward, and leak if I don't have it locked shut. For clarity- I don't mean leak around the neoprene when it's intentionally closed, but leak when it's in the operating mode, with water coming quickly in through the little door thingy that's supposed to open when I hit speed. I've taken to using it like a plug: only when the boat's out of the water. Have others gotten theirs to open as low a 3.5 knots. If so- I really want to copy that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dunn Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 The Anderson bailer in my CS20 works at about 3.5 knots. At times I have stuck a screwdriver in it to open the flap. I have not noticed a problem with water coming back in through the bailer but I don't have it open that much while day sailing. It is great to have while the boat is on the trailer. In the 2008 Texas 200 we were getting quite a bit of water in the boat between the centerboard trunk and thwart so the bailer was useful. The extra flow of water via the centerboard trunk and thwart was helpful to clean the mud we got in the boat at Hap's cut. In the 2011 Texas 200 we did not take as much water between the centerboard trunk and the thwart so did not pay as much attention to the bailer. We shall see what happens this year. I considered putting a bailer in my S10 and actually bought one but have never installed it. We only use the S10 to row around with the grand kids occasionally. If I sailed my S10 and took a lot of spray I would probably be motivated to install the bailer but for now it is fine without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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