SteveKos Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 As I'm nearing completion of my Spindrift 11, my attention is now being drawn to details of how best to set up the rig. I am using a Leg-o-mutton sprit sail, with the mainsheet running from a traveller, to a block off the leech end of the sprit then to hand. But I am thinking of where best to position a cleat for the sheet, and what type. Should I decide on this after sailing a few times to get a feel of where is most comfortable in various conditions before deciding, or do others have suggestions after having done the hard work before me? I don't want to be tied to the helm unable to perform small non-sailing tasks with both hands continually occupied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter HK Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 On one boat of mine ...a Welsford Golden Bay dinghy...I ran the sheet from the aft end of the sprit boom to a stand up block on the rudder above the pintles (so as not to bias the weather/lee helm) and then onto a clam cleat on the top of the tiller. It works OK and If needed I can go to 2 purchases as I have a block on the boom end and a becket on the stand up block so I can attach the sheet to the becket. On my CS17 I run the sheet along the sprit boom and down the mast to a swiveling cleat at the mast base. Overall I prefer having a sheet forward. Cheers Peter HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveKos Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 On one boat of mine ...a Welsford Golden Bay dinghy...I ran the sheet from the aft end of the sprit boom to a stand up block on the rudder above the pintles (so as not to bias the weather/lee helm) and then onto a clam cleat on the top of the tiller. It works OK and If needed I can go to 2 purchases as I have a block on the boom end and a becket on the stand up block so I can attach the sheet to the becket. On my CS17 I run the sheet along the sprit boom and down the mast to a swiveling cleat at the mast base. Overall I prefer having a sheet forward. Cheers Peter HK Sorry I don't get the second option. How does this system provide enough leverage to hold the sail position? Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Steve: I think there are two thoughts on this. First one is that for small boats like this, cleating off the mainsheet may not be such a hot idea. Bad things happen fast, faster than you can uncleat the sheet to prevent the impending disaster. So you work the sheet with one hand and the tiller with the other, playing both at the same time. Small boats are also very sensitive to weight, so not likely you can cleat off the sheet and get up to move around anyway. The moment you do, the boat is going to go places you don't intend for it to. I even get that on my 17 footer. But I also recognize the "tyranny of the tiller". Depending on your level of interest, that can either remain fun all day or get old in a hurry. But if you do want to cleat it off, best solution I have seen is to mount a swiveling cam cleat, with fair lead, on the bottom of the boat, just aft of the bench, which will put it about at the middle of the boom. Glue a block down and screw the cleat fixture to the block. If you have a leg of mutton rig, you could move the mounting position well aft somewhere under the clew position. Unless you don't object to going swimming now and then, make sure it is setup to pop it free in an instant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter HK Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Sorry I don't get the second option. How does this system provide enough leverage to hold the sail position? See above photos The sheet goes from traveler to end of boom , along boom, down the mast and finishes at a swiveling cleat. In a Spindrift 11 you'd have to then run the sheet back aft to a cleat somewhere- not sure how that would work. Cheers Peter HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 But if you do want to cleat it off, best solution I have seen is to mount a swiveling cam cleat, with fair lead, on the bottom of the boat, just aft of the bench, which will put it about at the middle of the boom. Glue a block down and screw the cleat fixture to the block. If you have a leg of mutton rig, you could move the mounting position well aft somewhere under the clew position. Unless you don't object to going swimming now and then, make sure it is setup to pop it free in an instant. This, or similar locations of the same swivel block/cam cleat has been used in just about every one design dinghy around. I would have done just what Peter suggests except that in a nesting Spindrift it would be in the way of nesting. So I mounted mine on the cap of the daggerboard. Main sheet goes from traveler to block on end of boom, to block in middle of boom to swivel block mounted in sole to your hand. You could also send it from end of boom to block on traveler to block on end of boom to block in middle of boom to swivel block on sole. I did the second one. Not sure I really needed the 2:1 advantage, but it does make holding the sheet in a blow easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveKos Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Sorry I don't get the second option. How does this system provide enough leverage to hold the sail position? tn_sail teltales.JPGtn_Turning block on mast.JPG See above photos The sheet goes from traveler to end of boom , along boom, down the mast and finishes at a swiveling cleat. In a Spindrift 11 you'd have to then run the sheet back aft to a cleat somewhere- not sure how that would work. Cheers Peter HK Thanks Peter. I see how the system works now. Question: When you want to resume controlling the sheet by hand again do you have to 'unthread' the sheet back through the block, and back again to cleat etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveKos Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Steve: I think there are two thoughts on this. First one is that for small boats like this, cleating off the mainsheet may not be such a hot idea. Bad things happen fast, faster than you can uncleat the sheet to prevent the impending disaster. So you work the sheet with one hand and the tiller with the other, playing both at the same time. Small boats are also very sensitive to weight, so not likely you can cleat off the sheet and get up to move around anyway. The moment you do, the boat is going to go places you don't intend for it to. I even get that on my 17 footer. But I also recognize the "tyranny of the tiller". Depending on your level of interest, that can either remain fun all day or get old in a hurry. But if you do want to cleat it off, best solution I have seen is to mount a swiveling cam cleat, with fair lead, on the bottom of the boat, just aft of the bench, which will put it about at the middle of the boom. Glue a block down and screw the cleat fixture to the block. If you have a leg of mutton rig, you could move the mounting position well aft somewhere under the clew position. Unless you don't object to going swimming now and then, make sure it is setup to pop it free in an instant. I do understand about the dangers of cleating the sail, particularly in heavy weather or gusty conditions. I am more talking about being able to temporarily use a cleat (and maybe a tiller lock) to allow me to dive into a hatch to fetch some food, or to adjust some gear etc. I wouldn't use any hands-free system for more than a few moments in a small boat, but it is handy to be able to if it is safe, all the same. I was thinking of the position you mention, it just means treading carefully when moving around the boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I had a Snipe with a boom mounted cleat that was excellent. I'm going to try that out this summer. I normally acted just like a regular mainsheet, but if you pulled the sheet at a backward angle, a cam cleat would activate. The beauty was that as long as the sheet stayed in your hand, it could be un-cleated in a second and worked hiked out. The weather hasn't really broke here in NY, so it will be awhile, but I'll keep you posted if it works. Take Care, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter HK Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 Thanks Peter. I see how the system works now. Question: When you want to resume controlling the sheet by hand again do you have to 'unthread' the sheet back through the block, and back again to cleat etc? I think you might not have fully understood my explanation. Essentially on a spritboom the sheet can be led to a cleat aft on the boat (as in my example with a block and cleat on the tiller) or a cleat forward by running it along the boom, down the mast and to a block or fairlead with a cleat within reach of the skipper so that he can handhold the sheet when necessary and cleat it when it is appropriate to do so. I generally prefer my sheet to be led forward if I can ...it feels more comfortable to me than reaching aft to a sheet...but either can work. What doesn't work on a spritboom is the sheet led to the centre of the boom and down to cleat near the centre of the boat as the sheet interferes with the sail on one tack. Of course this method works well on a standard boom. Cheers Peter HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 What doesn't work on a spritboom is the sheet led to the centre of the boom and down to cleat near the centre of the boat as the sheet interferes with the sail on one tack. Of course this method works well on a standard boom. Might be one of the reasons Graham designed the Spindrift to use a conventional boom. I am a firm believer in keeping the sheet in hand, or at least draped over my calf. This is why I am such a big fan of the swivel block w/ cam cleat. It allows me to be completely at the ready to dump the wind without having to hold tension all the time. There are lots of ways to rig a sailboat, the sail type and related standing rigging and needed running rigging, but if I can't be ready and a little lazy at the same time, I don't like it. As we would say in the Plastic Classic Forum: "Damned because its all related" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveKos Posted April 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 What doesn't work on a spritboom is the sheet led to the centre of the boom and down to cleat near the centre of the boat as the sheet interferes with the sail on one tack. Of course this method works well on a standard boom. Cheers Peter HK Yes, I am aware of that. What I can't quite get without seeing it is how the sheet can be finely controlled being run through two additional blocks, one on the sprit or mast, and one at the base of the mast. Is there any problem sheeting in the sail in a gust with that system? I am thinking that the sail pressure in heavier conditions might make it difficult to haul the sail in compared to the sheet being controlled more directly from the sprit at the clew end. I can see though that the sheet running from the traveler or fixed point on the transom would still take half of the pressure, and you would still get a 2:1 advantage regardless of how the line is run forward. What I am concerned about is the extra friction with 2 extra blocks in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter HK Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 There is a bit more friction with the extra blocks but the only time it is annoying is in very light conditions especially when off the breeze- the force in the sail is not enough to pull the sheet through all the blocks. I sometimes find myself having to pull some sheet through from the aft end of the boom to ease the boom out. It heavy conditions I don't notice any increased friction as it's minimal compared to sheet tensions (not that sheet tensions with a spritboom are ever very high). Cheers Peter HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveKos Posted April 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Well I think I might go for that setup. I really like the idea of no lines in the cockpit to get in the way. Thanks Peter. Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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