msaxton Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 So, I was browsing at goodwill yesterday and saw some needle point hoops as seen in the picture, and it hit me, these are two round rings with a tightening clamp. So i thought why not feed your fabric through it pull it tight , glue it up, tighten the clamp and let the glue cure, once cured remove the metal clamp piece from the hoop and you have a perfectly round hatch. Then make a watertight lid how you want. The ones i saw were only like 3/8" thickness and probably wouldnt hold the flat shape with the fabric pressure on them, but you can find them at 7/8" or 1" thickness(heigth) in many diameters and oval shapes too. think i will try this at least on some scrap and see how it works. you could also drill many holes in order to sew it. AND, THEY ARE VERY CHEAP! You would obviously need to put a good finish on the wood to protect from water. Also grabbed one of the collapsable buckets shown below for $1.99 at goodwill(can be found online), has a hard plastic ring around the top that could somehow be attached and then make a cover for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaxton Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Did a little shopping today and found hoops at Hancock Fabrics cheap, got an oval 8" x 15" for $4.19 and a 12" round for $3.49 they are 3/4" high and when tightened as tight as they would go sit perfectly flat and feel real sturdy. unlike the one in the pic, they have a wood clamp with toggle bolt, but the toggle blocks are just stapled on so would be easy to remove once it is all mounted, then just cut or grind the staples off. I did find 1" high ones at Hobby Lobby, but they were $22 (overpriced) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarbaker Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I'm interested in seeing how these work for you. Do you think they will be strong enough to hold up to the tension needed to hold the kayak skin taught? I've thought about using a similar method, but with the use of metal rings instead of wood. My shad has yet to be started, and I don't know that I'll have hatches in my first go, but may look to put hatches in a future boat for some light touring use. Looking forward to your future updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaxton Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I think they would be if installed right, since you would be removing a section of the top center stringer/center beam to have a hatch, you would need stringers at the edges of the hatch opening to make up for it, just set it up so they also support the hatch. I havent started building my nimrod yet either, working on renting a nearby garage since i cant have one where im at, as soon as that gets finalized I will be starting. Soon hopefully, sounds like around the 15th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DURRETTD Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 The best kayak hatches I've found are the ones that are made to be kayak hatches. They have mounting flanges, the covers fit well, and Jeff sells them at a very reasonable price. Jeff has an excellent description of hatch installation either on this forum or in his first book - sorry, couldn't find it with a quick search but I'm sure he can refer us to the source. I've cobbled together cheap hatches, and they were marginally successful. I've also used real hatches and they are easy to install, water-tight, nice looking, and well worth the price. I enjoy the challenge of engineering something inexpensive and elegant, but hatches have been too much of a challenge (to me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 http://www.kudzucraft.com/articles/hatches/ Leaking hatches or worse, unsecure hatches are liability. If a hatch come loose you have a hole in your boat. That is why I don't advocate or get involved in DIY hatche threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaxton Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Those do look like an excellent product, might have to reconsider and get those, I'm just that guy that always has to try to figure out how to make something or figuring out how things work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcone1381 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I hope my opinion does not cause anyone pain. The big plastic hatch is not too appealing to me. We make our boats out of wood and skin them and seal them. I just got to believe that an inexpensive, appealing, lightweight hatch is achievable despite the obstacles. I see a nice oval inner hoop for the coaming and the outer hoop used as the lid, using some imbedded rare earth magnets and the knurled thumb screw to give the lid redundant closure mechanisms. If we don't experiment, we don't improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DURRETTD Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I hope my opinion does not cause anyone pain. The big plastic hatch is not too appealing to me. We make our boats out of wood and skin them and seal them. I just got to believe that an inexpensive, appealing, lightweight hatch is achievable despite the obstacles. I see a nice oval inner hoop for the coaming and the outer hoop used as the lid, using some imbedded rare earth magnets and the knurled thumb screw to give the lid redundant closure mechanisms. If we don't experiment, we don't improve. Bcone, A few months ago we had an extended discussion on whether SOF boats were "experimental". The message I took away was that the technology is mature, but the boats lend themselves to experimentation. I love to swim against the current: I staple the skin; I've used partial wooden decks; I use epoxy and screws to assemble the frames; etc. In short, you make an excellent point about the benefits of experimentation. I hope you have better luck with the hatches than I did. There is a price to be paid for doing things differently: you're required to post photos and let us know how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaxton Posted March 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 So, after alot of thought and looking at a couple of diffferent ways of making the hatches, Although it could definitely be done, in the interest of saving time on the Nimrod build, I decided to buy a couple hatches from Jeff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I don't address this towards anyone in particular, but I think there are many who experiment for the sake of it. I guess if that turns you on then who is to criticize? But I only experiment when I see a real chance at gaining something and I have done enough research and had enough experience to feel good that I might make an improvement. When I hear a first timer claim he is going to make things better I just cringe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcone1381 Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I go back to Jeff's point that a loose hatch is a hole in your boat. No one can disagree with that statement. In some cases it will kill. I kayak on small lakes so far, no big water so I don't have his perspective or concern over another hole in my boat. I attended the Quiet Waters Symposium two weeks ago, and see a great market for a camping platform for the Boundary Waters or Algonquin. Wenonah Canoe has experimented and come up with a pretty cool platform. I believe a size able market exists for an expedition Kayak. The main reason people don't use Kayaks in these areas is due to the extra time they demand to pack and unpack when performing a Portage. A canoe is just easier and quicker...grab the packs and go! On the water, and during the carry, everyone favors a Kayak. A canoe is like a ball and chain compared to Jeff's designs. I wonder about the Stonefly. Wind is an enemy of a Canoe though, so I go back to the Kayak. So I my interest is perked for a design like Wenona's Canyak. Can I modify my Cast-a-Way with three coamings? I wonder about its stability when loaded though. Maybe that will be next winters project. http://wenonah.com/Canoes.aspx?id=116 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Interesting boat and I am sure it will sell. But looking at the overall dimensions and it is basically just a decked canoe. I bet it is (basically) a canoe hull they added a deck too. Looking at the photos the paddler is up high so it that sort of confrims my suspicions. I suspect if you put it and a touring kayak side beside with similar loads. The kayak would be out of site by the end of the day. Just add some nylon tarps to a Stonefly and save yourself a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcone1381 Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I just edited my post to clarify, but did not see your post soon enough, so we are on the same track, Jeff. The higher profile...I mean a 10knot head wind is tough in a canoe. A 15 knot wind, and it's not worth the energy- just set it out and wait for the evening calm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaxton Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Quote:"I kayak on small lakes so far, no big water so I don't have his perspective or concern over another hole in my boat. I attended the Quiet Waters Symposium two weeks ago, and see a great market for a camping platform for the Boundary Waters or Algonquin.Wenonah Canoe has experimented and come up with a pretty cool platform. I believe a size able market exists for an expedition Kayak. The main reason people don't use Kayaks in these areas is due to the extra time they demand to pack and unpack when performing a Portage. A canoe is just easier and quicker...grab the packs and go!" I am planning on taking my kayak into the boundary waters, and would be portaging with a portage strap without unpacking the kayak at all, But then I am a complete minimalist, after years of ultralight backpacking I can pack everything I need for a week, food included, water not, in under 30 pounds, so kayak and pack would only total 60-70 pounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcone1381 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I might be able to do a weekend trip at about 30 pounds. Fishing adds bulk and weight! I have little experience portaging with a canoe, but Most of my camping has been on rivers without a portage. I read and ask questions, and I'd like to know how a portage works out leaving the kayak packed. It is message boards like this where I see the issues that need resolving...it's not experience that I have. http://www.bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=305107&forumID=12&confID=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I can get a larger oval shaped hatch from SeaLect design. I think it is 18 x 11? I don't stock them because they sold VERY slowly. Not sure what boats they would fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaxton Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Bcone: I have weighed my complete fishing package including telescoping rod and reel and small tackle wallet(which actually holds quite a bit) enough to cover a week trip as long as I don't lose to much to snags, and it comes in at right around 1-1.5 pounds. Jeff: I would pack most of my stuff in small dry bags, but those ovals would definitely make the sleeping bag and tent easier to stow. will consider those if I build another one. what kind of price on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Now I remember why I don't stock them. $90-100. There are 2-3 different sizes, but they are all about the same price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaxton Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Wow, Spendy, I'll just make do with smaller one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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