Mr Gingerbread Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks Mitch for the links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Any good ways of checking the joint strength? Yes and you just did it. Try to break one. If your joint failed cleanly and there was no wood torn from the opposite side of the joint then you didn't have a good glue joint. Now the question is why? To get a proper joint you need very good mating faces, a very good mate.When you put the two peices together they should mate perfectly and you should see no gaps between them! If you see gaps, that is a problem. You need to use enough glue that when you clamp them you get some squeeze out of the glue. If you don't, your joint will be starved for glue. Second, you need to clamp the joints tight overnight. If everything is correct you should have a good strong joint. When you break one you should break the wood, not the glue joint because the glue is stronger than the wood. Hope that helps figure out what wen wrong. I have made A LOT of scarf joints, all with Titebond III and after the initial learning curve, I have never had a failure. The only difference is I am using Wester Red Cedar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gingerbread Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Laying up the frame, hope to get started on the lashing tonight. Skin ordered 11.6 oz poly. I'll play with skin on my next SoF Kayak. Tested some of the scarf joints and they don't want to break. gota keep working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gingerbread Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 "The lashings will continue until integrity improves" Burned some midnight oil but have the frame lashed together. Next up is getting the seat, hatch and foot rests installed into the frame. Need to find some DuraTuff as well. Might be away from it for a bit as I'm house sitting up island again. -Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gingerbread Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Spent the last few days fitting the hardware (seat, hatch, pegs) to kayak (or would this be considered a kayak-yak?). Next to do after double checking all the work so far is to oil, then re-attach hardware test float with plastic wrap and then skin. Looking for a second opinion on my hatch set up. The back hatch plate feels solid but play devils advocate for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaxton Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I kinda like that hatch set up! Build is looking great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I don't see any issues with the hatch base in the frame. It is secured in place and provides material to sandwich the skin to and hold fasteners. ................. test float with plastic wrap ............... What are you testing for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gingerbread Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Testing for a bit of everything. Make sure the foot pegs are mounted high/low enough. I did sit in it on land but with a temporary skin I'll know for sure. See if the hatch placement effects the stability of the structure of the back deck any. make sure the frame stays straight under load and in the water. Heck for fun if nothing else. Nice to make sure everything is good to go before I put on the skin which is the most expensive part of the boat (will be about ~$250 for the skin (including polyurethane)(shipping is a killer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Good answer! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gingerbread Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Watching boiled linseed oil dry... Oiled the frame a few days ago and just letting it sit. Given up on finding duratuff and will just go with a basic exterior pain when skinning begins. Been fitting/modding in some float bags (stern fits great, bow fits ok). Made a Norsaq out of some wood Iaying in the corner (Followed http://seakayaking-stuart.blogspot.ca/2011/11/building-norsaq.html as a guide). Another block got turned into a hand line rig. Also been cutting out some deck line toggles from some salvaged hardwood flooring. All in all, small jobs here and there and nothing "epic". Oh I did order a sea sock from black dog kayaks so hope to get it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaxton Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Ha, Just noticed what you wrote earlier: "The lashings will continue until integrity improves" That's funny right there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gingerbread Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Took just over 3 weeks but got the skin in the mail (had been sitting in water and they lost all the labels/paper work on the box). A few yellow water stains on the fabric but shouldn't be an issue. From the post office I hit the hardware store for the paint. They recommended "Beauti-Tone Rust Coat" so I grabbed a can of flat white. I will do some other colour for the deck. So now a few questions. First: does number of coats affect durability of the boat (ie more coats = more durable)? I am planing a 350 mile expedition and am considering using this kayak rather then borrowing one (got a bunch of test paddles planned). The more durable the better. What would the effect of 4-5 coats on the bottom have? Second: Can the secondary colour of the deck be painted on after 2 coats of the the primary colour (flat white)? Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 First, I don't think you want flat color. I used a semi-gloss black on my Shad and it seeps water. I am going over it in gloss black. I have no proof but it seems to be the flat and semi-gloss are porous. So I don't think flat white is a good idea. Plus the flat and semi glosses are not as tough. They do not have as hard a surface as the gloss. My experience has shown it takes 3 coats (for me) to get all the pin holes filled and it not leak. At my class last year I didn't realize that one of my students was being stingy with his paint, painting on 3 very thin coats. At the launch his boat leaked bad! This year that is something I will watch MUCH closer but he did email me latter that he applied two more coats and that it was fine after that. So the number of coats will depend on how thick you apply it but for me 3 coats. I think 2 coats on the 11.5 oz will be enough but I have not tried it to prove that. As for durability, yes, no, maybe? I really don't know but I don't think it really adds much. Paint is just not that hard and sharp objects can scrape it down the fabric. I don't think a couple of extras coats will stop that. Worst that will happen is you MIGHT get a little seepage. But that is no big deal. Most skin boats will seep some water somewhere after they are used a lot and broke in good. Sorry about the water stains on the fabric. Obviously I have no control over that and I am not sure if the insurance I have on it will replace it or not? But as long as it is just water it should be fine to paint over it. But if you want I will check into getting it replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gingerbread Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Thanks for the offer Jeff but no need I'm sure everything will be fine. I didn't intend to imply any issues outside of the shipping companies and even then it would be hard to get upset (I've worked part time in one). I'll stick to 3 coats on the kayak and mabie a strip coat down the keel. I'll also exchange the paint tomorrow for a gloss (i think your book originally called for semi). Onward and upward. Thanks for the quick reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 The rule for satin varnish on a boat is to coat with gloss and do the last coat or 2 with satin. If you really want a flat finish, and I can;t imagine why, then just add a flat coat after you waterproof it. Another disadvantage to flat is that it gets dirty easier and is harder to clean once it does. This is why today's interior wall paint is egg shell, or satin, not flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gingerbread Posted April 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Might as well trade it in for Glossy Black I guess. Trying to decide between red or blue for deck. Might look like a feathercraft kayak now. I found what I was looking at when I bought the paint, Page 127 of Fuselage Frame Boats: "I have recently started going to the pain store and having my colors mixed. I just ask for their best exterior oil based enamel paint. ... If you are going to use paint I suggest a semi-gloss or even a flat finish." Had that underlined when i walked in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DURRETTD Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 I used Rustolium gloss oil paint on my boat and it has been very durable. I had a problem with the paint sticking to the rack if it had only cured for a couple of days. The solution was to finish all three coats on the bottom and letting it sit in the sun for a week to cure before turning it over again. The high humidity in Northwest Florida may have been part of the problem. Does anyone have any insight on curing paint faster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 "I have recently started going to the pain store and having my colors mixed. I just ask for their best exterior oil based enamel paint. ... If you are going to use paint I suggest a semi-gloss or even a flat finish." I read that and said NO WAY! But I looked and did say it. I will have to change that. Experience is a great teacher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarbaker Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 glad to I read these recent posts. I too was considering a flat/semi-gloss paint. Will have to reconsider. Although, in my copy of Fuselage Frame Boats it is on page 135. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gingerbread Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Stuck on how to cut the fabric. Will most likely go down the slow lane with a broad tip soldering iron (I have other projects that need an soldering iron as well). Given the off grid nature of my life, I am considering a Butane Soldering iron. Any thoughts? Not too concerned with burning too much fuel as I got lots left over from a crapped out stove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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