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scarf first or rip first?


holmsy2000

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hi guys, my plans for tangerine arived today so its time to get to work, i have read the instruction manual all the way through.

I need to scarf my stringers to get therequired length and i was wondering do i scarf them first or rip the board to size first. it seems like i could save on a lot of work joining if i scarf the board first, i Guess the big downside is that i then have to rip a 16' board.

Any other problems i'm not seeing?

 

i am cutting my scarfs with a hand plane, so saving time there is a big help.

 

Also Jeff, the plans have doubles of three of the frames, does that mean the boat is symmetrical?

 

thanks Brett.

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I honestly don't know if there is any real difference. I can see a slight advantage to doing the scarfs on a large board since you are cutting them by hand.  But depending on your skill set, you might get a better fit doing them individually even if it takes longer. If you use hand tools a lot and know what you doing that's not going to be an issue. 

 

As you said, ripping 16' foot boards could be a pain depending on your tools. I have large outfeed table and a portable roller stands so it's not to hard to do by myself but it's still not fun.

 

All that said, I lean SLIGHTLY toward doing them after ripping but again, it depends on you tools and skills. So basically I am no help. :-) 

 

I rip mine first because my scarfing jig for the table saw will only cut 2" wide or so. Sometimes I peice scrap together so I wanted all the scarfs exactly the same. I can pick up a piece and know the scarfs will mate regardless how long ago I cut it.

 

I will have to look but I think that Tangerine is symmetrical.

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Before I could offer any sound reply I would need more info.

 

1.  Is the wood absolutely clear?  If not, then you may not end up with useable pieces after ripping even though the scarfed board is long enough.

2.  Is there any grain run-off in the boards being scarfed?  If there is then the same problem as in #1 may occur.

 

Taking 1 and 2 into consideration, even if you rip more than you need and end up with what you need it can be wasteful. And you may have to make further scarfs due to cutting out knots and grain run-off after ripping anyway.  Inspecting the ripped stock, cutting out knots and grain run-out and then scarfing to the needed lengths assures the best use of materials at hand, leads to the least waste and provides sound stringers.  If you think wide scarfs are easier, or faster, then you can clamp multiple ripped pieces to a table, bench or sawhorses such that they are right next to each other and the ends to be scarfed line up.

 

In summary, I think ripping first is likely more practical.  That is unless you have virtually flawless wood and can end up with a scarfed board with a length that rips into very practical length stringers with little or no waste, bad spots to cut out.

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Unless you're set up to run long stock through your table saw, rip it first. 16' pieces tend to bind, twist and other crap, if you're just using a roller stand or something and aren't set up for milling long stock. I have an 8' table on the outfeed side of the table saw, which can be moved, so running16' stock isn't a problem. Having someone hold the outfeed side is almost always guaranteed to cause binding or pinching in the saw.

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After feeding 24' mast staves through a table saw recently, I can assure you, without an outfeed table of sufficient length, it's difficult to control material. In fact on my out feed table, I fixed a couple of dogs, so the out feed stock wouldn't curl or slide off the side of the table.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, where do I start, I am a novice wood worker (hack) I don't have many tools, but am known to tackle anything

I bought two plastic bath tub kayaks this year and the wife and I fell in l love with kayaking,  however, they weigh 65 + pounds  each which lead me to discover SOF and Kudzu Craft.

I bought the frame kit recently for Long Shot, thank you Jeff they look great. I searched several lumberyards for  WRC

and low and behold the only place that had clear WRC on Cape Cod had 3 -18 foot 1 x 6s  one of them had a knot in it so i bought 2. Will I need more?. (I should have gabbed all 3?) I thought i was going to cut all the stringers with my skill saw. but the cedar was expensive and I didn't want to ruin it,   soooo-  I went out and bought an inexpensive table saw, and--- when i couldn't find anyone with a planer I bought a bargain planer. As above, do I plane first or rip first?  I also picked up a thin kerf 80 tooth table saw blade thinking i would waste less lumber. I too have read the Kudzu craft manual twice and most every post here and I am very thankful for all the support and info you all have shown. I almost feel like an expert before even picking up a tool.

I will post picks of my progress as soon as I get started. I will now have to build two or three Kayaks to justify the investment,

I can picture a fleet of SOFs hanging from the rafters in the living room.   yes dear?

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Well, where do I start, I am a novice wood worker (hack) I don't have many tools, but am known to tackle anything

I bought two plastic bath tub kayaks this year and the wife and I fell in l love with kayaking,  however, they weigh 65 + pounds  each which lead me to discover SOF and Kudzu Craft.

I bought the frame kit recently for Long Shot, thank you Jeff they look great. I searched several lumberyards for  WRC

and low and behold the only place that had clear WRC on Cape Cod had 3 -18 foot 1 x 6s  one of them had a knot in it so i bought 2. Will I need more?. (I should have gabbed all 3?) I thought i was going to cut all the stringers with my skill saw. but the cedar was expensive and I didn't want to ruin it,   soooo-  I went out and bought an inexpensive table saw, and--- when i couldn't find anyone with a planer I bought a bargain planer. As above, do I plane first or rip first?  I also picked up a thin kerf 80 tooth table saw blade thinking i would waste less lumber. I too have read the Kudzu craft manual twice and most every post here and I am very thankful for all the support and info you all have shown. I almost feel like an expert before even picking up a tool.

I will post picks of my progress as soon as I get started. I will now have to build two or three Kayaks to justify the investment,

I can picture a fleet of SOFs hanging from the rafters in the living room.   yes dear?

 

 

John,

 

I'm a newbie also, and will be real interested to follow your build.  I also have the PB (plastic boat) experience, and it took all of my wife's and my strength to load our dual on top the SUV rack for the short trip to Lake Arrowhead.  We soon gave up the sport, as it was just too much work.  Well, now we've given up on each other also, and I'll be making a solo move to Arkansas next month.  My plan is to build a single SOF over the winter months and be ready for the water in Bella Vista, AR next spring.  I've got a little more experience with tools and wood, but all of the woodworking tools were sold when we divorced.  So, the ability to build a kayak using mostly small hand tools really appeals to me, until such time as I can re-outfit my workshop.  Good luck on your "Long Shot", and let us (er...me!) follow along with you.

 

 

Lon in California...but not for long!

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Generally you would rip stock to rough dimensions, then run them through a planer to get the exact dimensions. This is because, even with a fine tooth count table saw blade, you'll still have some roughness to them, which a planer will sort out. Simply put a planer is a finishing tool, while a table saw is a rough dimension tool. Everything coming off the table saw will need refinement, if it's finish will be visible. This said, most will also do further finish refinement on stock running through a planer.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for the help everyone. I read almost every post. I am now an expert?

Well, lets see, two weeks to gather materials another week to gather tools.

Table saw and planer from Harbor Freight miscellaneous clamps and bungees some glue etc.. oh yes, the tools from Harbor freight do suck!      I bought  4 -16 foot 1x6 rough fence stock and made the strong back had an extra 16 foot piece so I laid it on top to smooth out the thing. Two days to get the frames just right. And two more days just looking at them to see if they would move. 

I set up some saw horses and ripped the stringers first then I routed them, it  wasn't too bad, a little unruly but i managed. The cuts aren't perfect but I can't paddle straight anyway.

I had two 18 foot 1 x 6 WRC and only had to get one more 10 footer for an additional stringer I had a crack in one end of a gunnel stringer that i didn't notice, it broke when I picked it up by the end, arrrrgg.  I ended up scarfing a couple joints. I dry fitted and measured and fidgeted around with the thing for the longest time I glued up the bow and stern today and kept measuring and fitting. I got some courage up and said screw it, I can always pull out the lashings if i make a mistake.  I lashed up four of the frames, piece of cake, and boy are those lashing strong. And Jeff,  I did break the sinew seeing just how much it could tolerate.

I have been a little rough on the WRC, it mars really easy I will have to be more careful on the next build.

I have pics but have not figured out how to get them up here.  oh I am building a Long Shot.

 

http://s850.photobucket.com/user/John_Casanova/library/?sort=6&page=1

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  • 2 weeks later...

All the framing and lashing is done except the coaming, I glued up the plywood coaming but am deciding whether or not to

make a strip coaming, I have promised to make my wife and son a sof kayak also. I am thrilled to do it for them. I've hung the kayak from the rafters for the winter and will oil all 3 of them and skin them all together in the spring. I'll get the two of them to help with the completion. Thank you Jeff, my family and friends think I am a genius.

 

Long Shot     http://s850.photobucket.com/user/John_Casanova/library/?sort=6&page=1

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