Kudzu Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Things are really hopping around here. Trying to get everything together for the class. While I was plotting out the plans use in the shop I managed to finish the video and get it on the web site. This shows how I am sewing the new 'double cord stitch'. http://www.kudzucraft.com/video/double-cord.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Doug (WA) Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 That looks like a lot of work as compared to the whip stitch. But, I like it. Darn cats. They are all the same, always want to be in the picture. Look here, needed a picture of my new apron from Duluth Trading Co. One of those "no picture, didn't happen" things for a woodworking forum. By the way, love the apron. It has mesh in the bottom of the big pockets so the sawdust fall through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 You were photo bombed by the cat! LOL I would like to have one of those aprons. Have read good things about them. The stitch isn't really any more work because you do one pass and your done. It will also tension the fabric really well. I don't have any boats to build on the horizon but I think this is going to be my standard from now on. Once you get past the awkward stage I think it will be less work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayak278 Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Thanks for posting the video....I'm going to try this stitch on my son's 11' Sea Flea that I built over the winter. Do I need to do anything different when I'm using this stitch with 8oz polyester? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Gonna have to try that on the next one. BTW, tailors use a thimble to push a needle, sailmakers used to use a palm. Might be worth considering one of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Do I need to do anything different when I'm using this stitch with 8oz polyester? I haven't got to try it on the 8 oz but I don't think so. It should work just fine. You may need to do something slighty different in your methods though. Gonna have to try that on the next one. BTW, tailors use a thimble to push a needle, sailmakers used to use a palm. Might be worth considering one of these. Your bet! My wife pulled out a couple of thimbles she had but they were kid sized. So I just used what I had. I think a palm wouldn't work to well on a flat deck but I am planning on a thimble next time I sew this fabric. I can make one of wood on the lathe if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted July 12, 2013 Report Share Posted July 12, 2013 More cats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2013 I have always seen the jokes about cardboard boxes being cat traps, maybe boats are too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labrat Posted July 12, 2013 Report Share Posted July 12, 2013 I used the double cord method with 8oz polyester on my recent Curlew build and although the first section was not as good as the rest I think the boat turned out better than it would have if done without the cords. It is probably the same as far as needing to be careful about not pulling holes in the 8oz. There were quite a few places where I needed extra paint but nothing too extreme. I don't recall any problem with pushing the needle through but this could be partly due to the lighter skin and also because I used a fine thread and smaller needle. I also went back over it a second time using the same needle holes but with the thread on the other side. I believe this would give at least equal seam strength to one done with a thicker thread. One thing I think I did wrong is to continue the cords down around the ends and try to finish the seam at the bottom. This caused the skin to have an untidy end as it would not flatten out. It would probably be better to finish the cords right at the end of the deck and use the other method from there but not having tried it I'm still unsure about how it would go. Some photos: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2013 I didn't think of it or I would have included how I did the ends. Maybe I will be go back and edit that video. I use a brass oval round on the ends. Great protection and (I think) it looks good. This photo doesn't do it justice. It fits better than it looks in the photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labrat Posted July 12, 2013 Report Share Posted July 12, 2013 It would definitely be worth adding to the video Jeff. When I watched it I had the feeling that it ended a bit short of being complete - and that brass strip really does look good. If it seems like too much work you can always get the cat to lend a hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingBear Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Jeff What type of stitch/finish is under the brass and where did you find the brass strip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 He probably stapled the fabric be my guess.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Yup. just used stainless/monel staples. I used heat-n-bond on another boat but the staples are so much quicker. Brass is hard to find. But it is a traditional canoe item, search for canoe stem band. I buy it in long lengths, cut it to size and drill and counterbore the holes. I have considered adding it to my store but by the time I add my labor to drill the holes and trim it it would be rather pricey and I doubt it would sell very well. Of course it is pricey from everyone else too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garth Jones Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 I really like the look of that stitch. I'm about to start skinning my Shad using the recycled poly. I assume this stitch will work for that fabric. Are there any pitfalls I should look out for? By the way, Jamestown Distributors sells half oval brass stock small enough to use on these boats, I think. I got some from them a few years ago for my Ness Yawl (Iain Oughtred designed sail boat). One 6' piece will be enough for at least two kayaks, I would think. Cheers, Garth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think the recycled will work well with that stitch. I have my doubts about the original because of the loose weave. Just follow the instructions and be willing to back and fix your mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcone1381 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Here are a couple shots of a modified stitch that I am using with the Jeff's original 8oz. Polyester fabric. This is my first kayak and am unsure of the quality of my work, yet am pleased so so far with how it is turning out. I am using two needles on both ends of a single piece of Jeff's waxed sinew. I don't have concerns about the holes the needles are going through, but I am being very careful, for i can see the loose weave could be an issue without some care. I have wondered if I am sewing it too tight, and am trying to keep it a bit loose, then tighten it with an iron. The Original 8oz shrinks up to 5% at higher temps (260f). I still don't know how I will finish off the bow and stern either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labrat Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 That double needle technique should give you a nice seam - looks like it's going well so far. The Original 8oz shrinks up to 5% at higher temps (260f). I did a trial on my 8oz poly by making 2 marks a known distance apart and then ironing and measuring the distance afterward. At relatively low temp it was about 5% but at high temp it was around 10%. That was well up the scale on the iron though and anyone contemplating using a hot setting really should try it on a test piece first - a bit of saved time wouldn't be worth the grief of melting a hole in a sewn skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I have wondered if I am sewing it too tight, and am trying to keep it a bit loose, then tighten it with an iron. The Original 8oz shrinks up to 5% at higher temps (260f). I still don't know how I will finish off the bow and stern either. image.jpg First off I am impressed. I didn't think you would be able to sew this without pull holes. Glad to see you can and I like the idea of the doubled thread. May try that in the class next week. In my opinion, the tighter you can pull the skin the better. If you are not getting pull holes I can't see any problem. One thing I am seeing is that heat shrunk fabric will loosen some over time. If you pull it tight to start with it shouldn't loosen up. That is hard to do with the looser weave fabric and that has been my concern. But looks like it is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garth Jones Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks for answering my question. If I could ask one more... From your book and video it looks like I should start at the cockpit and sew towards the ends (as opposed to the nylon, which starts with the bow and stern pockets). Is this correct? My general plan was to sew from the cockpit to the ends using the double cord. Then I was going to staple the bow and stern and cover those areas with brass half oval. Thanks again, Garth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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