Bcone1381 Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 I have a skin and coating decision coming up. How does a polyester fabric with a two part Urethane coating sound? Are their any compatibility issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 The 2 part LPUs I have experience with are very hard. This means they do not handle any movement. I would think they would crack on a skin boat. Not sure what you mean by compatible, but even if it adhered well there may be other issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Martin Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 Let me start by saying I have no first hand experience with the situation. I have heard builders on Qajaq USA swear by it in terms of toughness and abrasion resistance. Here is a link with information and some videos. http://www.skinboats.org/skinboats/sewing_your_baidarka.html#!urethane-application-/c1xub The only negative I have seen is that it is not cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Doug (WA) Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 Very interesting. Looks like does a beautiful finish. I also liked the look of their kayak seat. Might have to think about one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcone1381 Posted June 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 Chris, the Skinboats you reference was also a reference I used educating myself about two part urethane. It is stainable, translucent, has UV protection, and must be flexible enough for our Skin Boats. Regarding the fabric, I like the stability of polyester, and the ability to shrink it with an iron. It raises some questions as why Skinbaots does not sell a polyester material, so in wondered about the compatibility of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 I have never tried it nor do I know anyone that has used it no polyester. BUT I have yet to find anything that will not bond to polyester so I have no doubt it would adhere just fine. Nothing much will stay adhered to nylon, so if it works on nylon that is even more reason to believe it will on polyester. I can only guess why Corey doesn't stock polyester but I suspect that it is because it's so hard to find a supplier. If you been following along you know how hard it has been for me to find a replacement for what I was selling. Secondly nylon has been used forever and that is what most people think of first. Polyester is sort of the new kid on the block and he probably doesn't have anyone asking for it. I am not knocking Cory's goop as it is referred to, but keep in mind it is not easy to apply and is very hard not to have run(s) in the finish, especially for the first time user from what everything I read. My personal feeling is it is probably a great product, I have never used it, but it just seems a bit overkill unless you're planning on being really rough on the boats skin. One of the big advantages of polyester for me was the fact I could use simple and cheap stuff to finish it. Paint works very well and I have never had a problem of any type using paint finish. If it gets marked up a bit from scrubbing on something just apply a little paint to touch it up. If you want a clear finish, Dura-tuff is a water clear poly that is a really tough finish. I have only used it on one boat but I was very impressed with it. So I have just never seen the need to spend the money and try it. Many people worry but these boats are much tougher than most people think. I have nothing to gain either way since I don't sell finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Martin Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 I have also see a lot of people talking about Coelan as a really nice coating. http://www.premapro.com/products/coelan-boat-coating/coelan-boat-coating-details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 I agree, Coelan sounds like the near perfect finish, except for the price! I have read a fair amount about it and was going to to order some till I saw the price. I just can't justify spending that much when paint work so well (on polyester) and is so much cheaper. But if I were doing a nylon skin that would probably be on my short list of finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyr Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 I am planning on using Rustoleum's Marine Spar Varnish Anyone have any experience with it? Also, how much do you think you need for a 16 footer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Doug (WA) Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 I bought 2 qts. of Zar varnish and mixed some stain with it, I used less than a qt. I put in three coats. Without the stain added, I probably would has used 1 qt. I don't know how the Rustoleum spreads compared to the varnish. What color did you pick? If you color it with a stain mixed into the paint, after I was done someone said never add more than 20% stain, I believe it was, I'm pretty sure I mixed in more than that, but it seems to be holding up fine. You should probably use the same manufacture stain as the varnish, I did just to make sure it was compatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyr Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 No stain, just clear. I kinda expect it to be slightly yellow/brown looking at the *cough* drips *cough* on my coaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyr Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 This stuff is suppose to be very mildew/uv/salt resistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 I have been using Helmsmans Spar Urathaine on my boats and after a year they work great..brush on 2 coats...I have sprayed oil based stain on the fabric first.....my last one I mixed some powder pigment into the urethane and brushed on 2 coats....never had to use more than a Qt. on all my boats..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 The word VARNISH is as misused as the word Mahogany. Even the product description for Rustoleum's "varnish" doesn't tell you what is in it. Varnish is a natural product. Most clear coats sold are urethanes or polyurethanes which really are not varnishes. They are clear plastic coatings. Real varnish is not a plastic. I have never used any of these on a kayak skin, but it seems those who have used urethanes and polyurethanes have found them to work well. I know of no one who has used a real varnish, so if Rustoleum is a real varnish I don't know that anyone here has proven it works (or doesn't work). I do not believe Zar makes a real varnish, just polyurethanes. Today's marketing people need a good vocabulary lesson, and a few technical lessons about the product they market. Or maybe they just don't care what the product is, whether it is what the customer needs, so long as they can sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfrankel Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 I always thought that almost all varnish sold is actually varnish (which is really not all that natural), but with added urethanes or polyurethanes, ostensibly for greater protection, at the cost of (some say) a more plastic look. It is really hard to find varnish without the added urethanes or polyurethanes. Based upon my research, the closest you get to a true varnish at the big box stores is Formby's Tung Oil, which seems to me to be a thinned varnish. Ironically, it is decidely NOT TUNG OIL. Which only confirms Dave's gripe. I would not recoommend true varnish for coating skin because you want the protection of the poly additivies. But I assume Dave must be a woodworker, because for furniture that you want to be able to touch up or re-coat in the future, most of the woodworking magazine experts generally adivse real varnish because once it hardens, it is difficult for anything to adhere to poly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 http://www.pettitpaint.com/product.asp?id=62 http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcone1381 Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 There have been a lot of products thrown out as ideas. In the end, These products have to stick, flex, hold up in direct sunlight, and to temperature change during a frigid winter while in storage. I like different ideas and am also looking some science and testing, like a display I saw at the Maritime National Historic Park on Fisherman's Warf. They had about ten varnishes that were being tested on a pieces of wood. The tested articles were just sitting outside in direct sunlight. I don't recall what specific product held up best, but the oil based products were far superior. Since Flexibility was not being tested, it don't think much about testing it on my Kayak though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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