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CS 17 vs CS 20 The Real Story


Joe Anderson

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Alan has written part one of the riveting story of the 2013 Everglades Challenge. His story highlights the competition between Alan and Paul Stewart in their tried and true CS 20 and Phil Garland and Dan Neri in their high tech wishboned carbon fibered CS17. Check it out. I can't wait for part two.

 

 

Joe

 

 

http://sailnaway.blogspot.com

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Saturday mid day , I will start epoxying my sides and bottoms of my core sound 20 mk2, with an eye of wiring and folding the sides and bottoms a week later.  So, after reading Alan's account of the CS17, which apparently uses not only carbon masts and wishbone booms, but also uses carbon fiber tape.  That makes me want to stop and maybe get carbon fiber tape.  I just am having a hard time thinking that carbon tape would save all that much weight or be that much stronger.  Anyone have any thoughts on that before I make an irrevocable election?

 

Thanks for your insight.

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  I just am having a hard time thinking that carbon tape would save all that much weight or be that much stronger.  Anyone have any thoughts on that before I make an irrevocable election?

I don't know that it would make much difference in weight or any appreciable difference in strength.  If you want to seriously race in events like the EC then I guess you have to do everything possible to build a go fast boat.  Other wise IMO it isn't worth the money.

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As far as racing, probably not, as I am just learning to sail...  But, those wishbone booms sure look cool....  I have an older but big windsurfing training board and the matching wishbone boom.   Could I use that , and get another for the mizzen....or would that look "tacky" , unless you go purchase brand new pretty ones.   Seems like the wishbone takes away the only downside to the sprit rig.

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I think it is worth noting that Alan and Paul in their semi stock CS were able to sail competitively with the high tech CS 17. If you work on making your fillets no larger than necessary you will save far more weight than replacing fiberglass tape with CF.

 

I think it is reasonable to start off sticking close to the plans, but everyone has to chart their own course.

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Alan here, I'm working on the rest of the trip report. Glad someone is reading it!

 

Tom, I wouldn't think about CF tape for you CS20 Mk2, I agree with Joe that being diligent with epoxy use i.e. not using more than necessary is the best plan for keeping the weight in check. 

 

Dnjost, I know that a friend of Phil Garlands made the CB for him but I didn't ask or look to see if it was a NACA profile. I assume that the rudder was but also not 100 percent sure. I do know that they used all the parts from the stock kit for the rudder so laminated plywood for the blade and cheeks nothing high tech, just good craftsmanship. Their trailing edge was mighty sharp. 

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Hi Guys,  

 

Alan, that is a great start to your EC trip report...yes, we're waiting for the next installment.  It's fun reliving the battle.

 

Regarding the build details of our CS17;  La Perla was built from a standard B & B kit.  We used western red cedar for most of the hardwood although the centerboard trunk was douglas fir and mahogany for more strength.  The centerboard was built by Henry Elliot who is a long time friend who currently runs the composite program at IYRS.  He did make it of some NACA profile.  It is poplar with fiberglass, e-glass I believe.   The rudder was shaped (what looked good) by Ken Madeiro who built the boat with me.  

 

We used carbon tapes on most fillets and down the centerline (inside and out) to replace the keel plank/keelson.  We also covered the inside of the 1/4" ply in the bow with carbon cloth where the plans show the stringers.  I don't think we saved any weight with the carbon but I am sure the boat is stiffer and stronger with it.  The hull was covered with 6 oz. fiberglass cloth, doubled up on the chines.  The completed hull with no centerboard, rudder, hardware or rigs was about 300 lb.  

 

We did increase the sail area about 15% over the standard high roach sails.  With a good reefing system we knew we could de-power when needed.  The North laminated 3Di sails require a stiff rig to maintain their shape...the masts are probably 30% heavier than what would be needed for a boat with dacron high roach sails. Knowing that the Cat-Ketch is not the most efficient rig up wind, we used a reject Thistle Jib that was used up to about 8-10 kts. upwind, set off a bowsprit (it also fit as a staysail flown off the mizzen).  We did have a purpose built assy. spinnaker.  It's funny to hear Alan say it looked so big...we kept saying it looked small but it was effective.

 

Bottom line is Dan and I felt that both Core Sounds were exceptional performers with great sailing characteristics.  Alan and Paul sailed a smart race using their knowledge of the boat and experience in previous races to set a record that will probably stand for a while.  

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Alan has posted another installment of his epic adventure sailing down the coast of Florida. Be forewarned this is only the second part of what could be a three or four part saga, and it is a real nail biter that leaves you hanging.

 

Alan has said that he has mega bytes of go pro video.

 

Do we have an Indy film in the works?

 

http://sailnaway.blogspot.com

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I've been working on my video editing but my friend Marty (Saltyfrog) from the watertribe who was doing some great PR stuff this year and collecting everyone's media beat me to it. Marty is no stranger to B & B and has a custom Graham Byrnes designed stitch and glue racing kayak.

 

Here are the links to the videos he has put out so far. Be sure to watch the one about Dog's Life (aka Paul Kral) to see what the conditions on day 1 were like for a smaller boat. YIKES! 

 

Penguin Man is an engineer for Hobie and designed the Mirage Drive. He usually races with his wife but was solo this year. He makes it look easy. 

 

SOS and DWSB  

 

Penguin Man (hobie Tandem Island)  

 

Dog's Life (hobie Adventure Island)

 

I am still working on my videos but will probably just put up the video in a more raw form. 

 

-Alan

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On our CS17 we used an Etchells spinnaker pole that was 9'-6" long.  I added some material where it lashed to the mast and the inboard end was secured to a cleat that was on the centerline just forward of the coaming.  I had a 3mm dyneema bobstay to the bow eye.  We only used the jib and spinnaker when it was light air.    I would not want to be sailing around in cruising mode with that pole sticking out all the time.  With the lashing, etc. it can be fairly easily rigged and unrigged.  The link below is to a story about our Everglades Challenge trip and has a picture of the boat coming into Checkpoint 1 that shows the spi pole/bowsprit fairly clearly.

 

http://www.breathemag.ca/news/events/it-s-always-good-when-you-re-holding-the-wood

 

Phil

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