Joe Anderson Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Alan has written part one of the riveting story of the 2013 Everglades Challenge. His story highlights the competition between Alan and Paul Stewart in their tried and true CS 20 and Phil Garland and Dan Neri in their high tech wishboned carbon fibered CS17. Check it out. I can't wait for part two. Joe http://sailnaway.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom the rower Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Saturday mid day , I will start epoxying my sides and bottoms of my core sound 20 mk2, with an eye of wiring and folding the sides and bottoms a week later. So, after reading Alan's account of the CS17, which apparently uses not only carbon masts and wishbone booms, but also uses carbon fiber tape. That makes me want to stop and maybe get carbon fiber tape. I just am having a hard time thinking that carbon tape would save all that much weight or be that much stronger. Anyone have any thoughts on that before I make an irrevocable election? Thanks for your insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 I just am having a hard time thinking that carbon tape would save all that much weight or be that much stronger. Anyone have any thoughts on that before I make an irrevocable election? I don't know that it would make much difference in weight or any appreciable difference in strength. If you want to seriously race in events like the EC then I guess you have to do everything possible to build a go fast boat. Other wise IMO it isn't worth the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom the rower Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 As far as racing, probably not, as I am just learning to sail... But, those wishbone booms sure look cool.... I have an older but big windsurfing training board and the matching wishbone boom. Could I use that , and get another for the mizzen....or would that look "tacky" , unless you go purchase brand new pretty ones. Seems like the wishbone takes away the only downside to the sprit rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matoi Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Great! Can't wait for the next part. Moro photos please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Anderson Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 I think it is worth noting that Alan and Paul in their semi stock CS were able to sail competitively with the high tech CS 17. If you work on making your fillets no larger than necessary you will save far more weight than replacing fiberglass tape with CF. I think it is reasonable to start off sticking close to the plans, but everyone has to chart their own course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnjost Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I am wondering if they also went with NACA shaped foils for the CB and rudder. Would seem not to make much sense to do all the high tech go fast stuff and then have stock foil shapes. ( not going to go that far on my CB, just pleased it came out flat from the clamping. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stewart Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Alan here, I'm working on the rest of the trip report. Glad someone is reading it! Tom, I wouldn't think about CF tape for you CS20 Mk2, I agree with Joe that being diligent with epoxy use i.e. not using more than necessary is the best plan for keeping the weight in check. Dnjost, I know that a friend of Phil Garlands made the CB for him but I didn't ask or look to see if it was a NACA profile. I assume that the rudder was but also not 100 percent sure. I do know that they used all the parts from the stock kit for the rudder so laminated plywood for the blade and cheeks nothing high tech, just good craftsmanship. Their trailing edge was mighty sharp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Garland Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hi Guys, Alan, that is a great start to your EC trip report...yes, we're waiting for the next installment. It's fun reliving the battle. Regarding the build details of our CS17; La Perla was built from a standard B & B kit. We used western red cedar for most of the hardwood although the centerboard trunk was douglas fir and mahogany for more strength. The centerboard was built by Henry Elliot who is a long time friend who currently runs the composite program at IYRS. He did make it of some NACA profile. It is poplar with fiberglass, e-glass I believe. The rudder was shaped (what looked good) by Ken Madeiro who built the boat with me. We used carbon tapes on most fillets and down the centerline (inside and out) to replace the keel plank/keelson. We also covered the inside of the 1/4" ply in the bow with carbon cloth where the plans show the stringers. I don't think we saved any weight with the carbon but I am sure the boat is stiffer and stronger with it. The hull was covered with 6 oz. fiberglass cloth, doubled up on the chines. The completed hull with no centerboard, rudder, hardware or rigs was about 300 lb. We did increase the sail area about 15% over the standard high roach sails. With a good reefing system we knew we could de-power when needed. The North laminated 3Di sails require a stiff rig to maintain their shape...the masts are probably 30% heavier than what would be needed for a boat with dacron high roach sails. Knowing that the Cat-Ketch is not the most efficient rig up wind, we used a reject Thistle Jib that was used up to about 8-10 kts. upwind, set off a bowsprit (it also fit as a staysail flown off the mizzen). We did have a purpose built assy. spinnaker. It's funny to hear Alan say it looked so big...we kept saying it looked small but it was effective. Bottom line is Dan and I felt that both Core Sounds were exceptional performers with great sailing characteristics. Alan and Paul sailed a smart race using their knowledge of the boat and experience in previous races to set a record that will probably stand for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Anderson Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Alan has posted another installment of his epic adventure sailing down the coast of Florida. Be forewarned this is only the second part of what could be a three or four part saga, and it is a real nail biter that leaves you hanging. Alan has said that he has mega bytes of go pro video. Do we have an Indy film in the works? http://sailnaway.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stewart Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I've been working on my video editing but my friend Marty (Saltyfrog) from the watertribe who was doing some great PR stuff this year and collecting everyone's media beat me to it. Marty is no stranger to B & B and has a custom Graham Byrnes designed stitch and glue racing kayak. Here are the links to the videos he has put out so far. Be sure to watch the one about Dog's Life (aka Paul Kral) to see what the conditions on day 1 were like for a smaller boat. YIKES! Penguin Man is an engineer for Hobie and designed the Mirage Drive. He usually races with his wife but was solo this year. He makes it look easy. SOS and DWSB Penguin Man (hobie Tandem Island) Dog's Life (hobie Adventure Island) I am still working on my videos but will probably just put up the video in a more raw form. -Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Great videos. really enjoyed them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigait1 Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Thanks for sharing the video Alan. It's great to get a course-side view of the EC. I'm thinking of adding a bowsprit like yours to my boat. Do you have any pics showing the details of how you installed that? Pete B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matoi Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Wonderful feat! Have you got any photos of the interior of the cabin? Looking forward to the next episode! m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwbaginski Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Congratulations to both teams. A question: what's the area of a Thistle jib? I like the idea of using it as a stysail as well. Did you make it during the race, or beyond? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Garland Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I don't know the sail area of the Thistle jib...we did use it as a jib in light airs upwind and close reaching. Our masts are 1' taller but it wasn't full hoist on the main mast...it was close on the mizzen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokeyhydro Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Thistle jib = 55.7 square feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwbaginski Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Thanks! My next question is about bow sprit solutions, as both boats use it. Would you share tips and detailed photos if possible please? Perhaps few more core sounds use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Garland Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 On our CS17 we used an Etchells spinnaker pole that was 9'-6" long. I added some material where it lashed to the mast and the inboard end was secured to a cleat that was on the centerline just forward of the coaming. I had a 3mm dyneema bobstay to the bow eye. We only used the jib and spinnaker when it was light air. I would not want to be sailing around in cruising mode with that pole sticking out all the time. With the lashing, etc. it can be fairly easily rigged and unrigged. The link below is to a story about our Everglades Challenge trip and has a picture of the boat coming into Checkpoint 1 that shows the spi pole/bowsprit fairly clearly. http://www.breathemag.ca/news/events/it-s-always-good-when-you-re-holding-the-wood Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwbaginski Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Thanks for the article. I guess the Thistle jib in both purposes - jib and staysail - is operated by the same system? A halyard which works as a stay behind a mast? Or there are 2 different systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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