Gluing skin

[Bob Bates]

Any thoughts on gluing instead of sewing the skin on kayaks, much like aircraft skin?   thanks,  Bob

[P Doug (WA)]

Well, nope, haven't given it any thought at all...  What kind of glue would you use?

[Kudzu]

Why are men so scared of sewing? 

 

You can do it and I have seen it done but I have never seen it done and look good. You are not dealing with the same lightweight fabrics. When you glue fabric to fabric you have an edge you have to deal. I have seen some that looked like they used a filler but it never will match the texture of the fabric.

 

On the Baidarka I just finished I tired heat-n-bond tape. It is heat activated tape and holds pretty well, but not enough for to consider it permanent. I used it on the bow and stern. I pulled the fabric around, ironed it in place. Ironed a second strip of tape on top of that piece of fabric and then ironed the overlapping fabric in place. What I have found is that the tape hold very well in tension, pulling it across the bond. But I can easily lift it upwards and pull it loose.

 

I trimmed the exposed fabric very close to the tape with the hot knife and that is not easy. Then I installed a a bronze half round strip, screwed in place over that and that is what is really holding the fabric permanently in place. It's very hard to hide all the fabric edge because trimming it is not easy to do without cutting the layer under it.

 

You could do this along the deck beam as well but it would be a lot work and expense. Sewing it just so much easier.

[CaptainSparrow]

I know this might sound out of sorts, but I had an idea that I wanted to try but might be wasting my time. I considered stapling everything up and marking everything with markers then remove the staples along the top, pull the material off and machine sew the ends and sew a small zipper along the top. Then just slip the frame back into the bag you just made, shrink and paint. Thoughts?

[Kudzu]

Polyester is heat shrunk so I don't see that working.

 

Nylon is pulled tight so I don't see you ever closing a zipper.

 

And the zipper is going to leak.

[Hirilonde]

You might succeed, but I have to ask:    Why?

[CaptainSparrow]

I can machine sew but haven't tried much hand sewing. I meant to put the frame back in the sewn cloth bag before heat shrinking, and painting over the zipper. The zipper would just be a finished seam never to reopen

[P Doug (WA)]

I was really dreading the sewing before I started.  I also dreaded the lashing before I started.  I found both very enjoyable once got into it.  

 

I would think it would be very difficult to sew one on the machine with a zipper and get it to fit tight enough to have a good looking fit even after shrinking.  Not to mention the difficulty of sewing in a zipper.  I only say that because I remember how my Mom hated sewing in zippers when she sewed.  She was a good at sewing also.

[DURRETTD]

If you're going to staple the skin, leave it stapled. After reading Jeff's description of building Stonefly (a canoe), I devised a scheme to staple the skin on a Yost-designed Sea Ranger with a line of staples down the center-line of the deck. I foresaw problems getting the skin tight enough because I would be working from the center toward each end and I would have had to reach under the already-tightened skin to pull the next increment of fabric tight. I just didn't have enough hands.

 

In the end, I used separate hull and deck coverings, both stapled to the gunwale. For the hull, I wrapped the polyester around the gunwale, pulled it tight, and fastened it to the inside of the gunwale with staples every couple of inches, then cut the fabric about an inch or two beyond the staples, rolled it into a (not very) neat roll and stapled it every half-inch over the top of the first row of staples. I pulled the deck fabric over the gunwale and fastened it the same way on the outside of the gunwale. By working from the center toward each end I was able to get the skin very smooth. It took very little ironing. The Sea Ranger has long overhangs fore and aft; a boat with more vertical stem and stern probably would not pull smoothly and would have to be sewn, stapled - or better yet glued - along the bow and stern.

 

Once the boat was painted I covered the outer 1/2 inch of the deck and the exposed staples on the outside of the gunwale with 2-inch wide polypropylene webbing. It looks better (to me) than having a seam down the middle of the deck - and I didn't have to sew anything. Hate sewing! I believe it was faster and easier than sewing would have been. It took about three hours to skin the boat using an electric stapler. If anyone wants to try this, be prepared to go back over your staples with a hammer - the electric stapler did not fully seat about 10% of the staples. If you plan to use a manual stapler, call your orthopedic guy and make an appointment in advance.

[Kudzu]

Stapling that way isn't a bad way if you can come up with a rub rail of some sort. They look out of place on a kayak to me but totally normal on a canoe.  If you have an air compressor, pick up a SureBonder air staple. Pretty cheap and I LOVE MINE! Beat the an old Arrow hand down!!

 

On the Baidarka, I didn't keep track of the hours but I spent about 5 hours sewing it, maybe six?  But of course I have a LOT of experience sewing them now. 

[CaptainSparrow]

I like that plan too. I wouldn't mind a rub rail around the gunwales and a matching one down the keel. I realize every little bit adds weight but I don't have to portage much since I'm mostly on flat water lakes.

[mfrankel]

I saw a you tube video that shows how to use heat n bond to join the fabric on the bow and stern without sewing.  I used the technique on Dave Gentry's Chuckanuk and on his Ruth.  It worked pretty well and was easy and fast.  It does not look as nice as a sewn seam.  I don't care about that.