Charles Treichel Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 My Christmas present was the book by Jeff on Fuseloge Frame Boats. Having built 4 other small craft all with different techniques, I thought it might be an enjoyable project to try a skin-on boat. My last project was from Harry Bryan's plans for "Fiddlehead", a 12' decked kayak, ostensably for my wife Dianne. Unfortunately I went a little overboard on materials and it came out too heavy, about 60#. I will be doing the lofting and the frames from my home in Madison, WI but plan on finishishing up during the summer at our place on Fidalgo Island, Anacortes, WA. I am going to try to post something every week, but its going to bog down from time to time as I have a trip plannned mid March, and then some time driving to WA by who knows what route. I do not plan on following the plans religiously, just the basic offsets. No offense; I just have some ideas I would like to try out. One of my objectives is to try to utilize alternate good materials that will reduce the cost and hopefully make amatuer boatbuilding more palatable to those who are turned off by some of todays prices. In the old days taking on a boat project often was ofter for reasons of economic necessity; today, if all you want is a boat, there are plenty of perfectly functional plastic ones on the market for as little as $300 or so. But with marine plywood at over $150/sheet, tiny copper brads at .10 each, paint and varnish at over $50/qt, to say nothing at the cost of bronze fittings, etc., it is easy to understand why one could be discouraged on the idea before even getting out of the blocks. Of course, no matter how you build this kayak, it shouldn't be all that costly anyway, as it doesn't consume that much wood skin and fabrics in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSparrow Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 That's a gorgeous little boat. I agree its a mite heavy at 60 lbs but I'd paddle it proudly. I would love a sof yak with that same deck design for fishing calm flat water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I would love a sof yak with that same deck design for fishing calm flat water. Have you looked at my Cast Away design? http://www.kudzucraft.com/designs/messabout/ I designed it to because I didn't like fishing from a 'real' kayak and it turned out near perfect in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Doug (WA) Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 It is a pretty boat. I really don't think you need to experment much with alternate "cheap" materials on one of these SOF kayaks. I have around $150 in mine. How much cheaper could you go? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSparrow Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Yep, I've admired those plans and combed through all of them very thoroughly. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Treichel Posted February 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 My Christmas present was the book by Jeff on Fuseloge Frame Boats. Having built 4 other small craft all with different techniques, I thought it might be an enjoyable project to try a skin-on boat. My last project was from Harry Bryan's plans for "Fiddlehead", a 12' decked kayak, ostensably for my wife Dianne. Unfortunately I went a little overboard on materials and it came out too heavy, about 60#. I will be doing the lofting and the frames from my home in Madison, WI but plan on finishishing up during the summer at our place on Fidalgo Island, Anacortes, WA. I am going to try to post something every week, but its going to bog down from time to time as I have a trip plannned mid March, and then some time driving to WA by who knows what route. I do not plan on following the plans religiously, just the basic offsets. No offense; I just have some ideas I would like to try out. One of my objectives is to try to utilize alternate good materials that will reduce the cost and hopefully make amatuer boatbuilding more palatable to those who are turned off by some of todays prices. In the old days taking on a boat project often was ofter for reasons of economic necessity; today, if all you want is a boat, there are plenty of perfectly functional plastic ones on the market for as little as $300 or so. But with marine plywood at over $150/sheet, tiny copper brads at .10 each, paint and varnish at over $50/qt, to say nothing at the cost of bronze fittings, etc., it is easy to understand why one could be discouraged on the idea before even getting out of the blocks. Of course, no matter how you build this kayak, it shouldn't be all that costly anyway, as it doesn't consume that much wood skin and fabrics in the first place. Events - 1002.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Treichel Posted February 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Not sure of all the workings of these forums, but to continue with my log on Poca Barta. Here is the way I lofted it. (plus some photos of tools I have made for woodworking). I have a large roll of heavy paper left over from my former employment so I cut several large sheets and draw x/y axis lines and begin transfering the offsets using a square and measuring tape or ruler. The results will be saved as master copies. Next, I lay these over another piece of the same paper and transfer the points using a sharp point of a compass. I retrace the lines on these and, using a craft knife and straight edge, cut them to size. I then fill in details consistant with the materials I will be using to construct the frames. This includes internal cutouts and notches for the stringers. Because I will be not be using plywood for the frames the patterns will reflect some variations made to the them while retaining the original design profile of Poc Barta. I am not too worried about abusing these as I can readily reproduce them from the saved originals. The tools are just wood versions of aids for the table saw and joiner, plus a sandpaper cutter using a hacksaw blade and a couple of hammers, the upper one being from a discarded branch of an oak tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Treichel Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Here is how I started the frames. I started with 1/2" IntegraPly underlayment. This is a high quality plywood, using exterior glue, sanded, and w/o voids. However, i ran out of my supply and when I went back to Menards, they no longer carry it in 1/2. So I decided to try from my supply of white oak. I transfered to outside dimensions to stock planed down to 1/2" and then cut an 1/8 relief on the table saw for the glue joints. After glueing and clamping with Titebond III I traced in the notches for the stringers and, where necessary, sanded in reliefs for the skin. I started the notches on a radial saw, then a hand saw, and finished squaring them up with a mortiser. Using the mortisor went very fast and resulted in nice square corners. I tested the glue joins by supporting the frame on the floor and standing on the opposite member with my 200# body. No problems. Here are some photos of the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Treichel Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Oops! Hit the wrong button. Here are the photos. I also wanted to add that cutting the relief with the unguarded table saw is a potentially dangerous operation and should not be attempted by someone inexperienced in its use. Note that my hand is blocked from coming near the blade by the fence and I advance the stock very, very slow. I would never try this, however, for a wider cut where the blade was not against the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I also wanted to add that cutting the relief with the unguarded table saw is a potentially dangerous operation and should not be attempted by someone inexperienced in its use. That is about the biggest understatement I have heard in a while. That shouldn't be tried by an experienced woodworker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I also wanted to add that cutting the relief with the unguarded table saw is a potentially dangerous operation and should not be attempted by someone inexperienced in its use. That is about the biggest understatement I have heard in a while. That shouldn't be tried by an experienced woodworker! There are so many other ways to safely cut a half lap joint, experience should tell you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Treichel Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Here is a much better way to do these. I made up a jig for future cuts. Note the wood peg at the bottom and the c-clamp at the top to keep the piece from rotating. Not only safer but easier. I already have a variety of jigs for other purposes. Don't why I didn't think of it at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Much safer! I may have come across a little harsh but I have a lot of first time builders here and I don't want them to get hurt! Heck, I was being careful did nothing wrong and mangled a thumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 It is so tempting at times when you are on a roll getting work done to do the quick and easy thing. We have all done it. But I think Jeff was right to jump on it so fast. It is one thing to do something that is dangerious, yet another to post that it can be done safely if you have experience. Real experience should tell you not to do it. And experienced people should tell others not to do it as well. If you choose to take the quick, easy and dangerous that is your choice, but let's not even mention that it might be a remotely good idea. Dangerous short cuts are easy enough to dream up on our own, we don't need help finding them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Treichel Posted March 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I can't disagree with that. I am working on some custom guards for my table saw and radial saw to use when it is impossible to use the factory one. If they work out I will post them. On another subject I am debating what to use for the fabric and leaning toward nylon even with its tendency to stretch and difficulty painting. Nothing is available to look at locally other than the chain fabric stores which seem to know little about their products and only carry widths up to 60". I was impressed, however, by "ripstop nylon" which comes in many different colors but, of course, not wide enough. Anyone know anything about this? What exactly is ballistic nylon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DURRETTD Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Jeff sells proven fabrics at a very good price. Check http://www.kudzucraft.com/store/viewcategory.php?groupid=18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 60" should be close, but I am guessing you have measured? Regardless I have yet to see a fabric store that carries anything near heavy enough. What I have seen online and person is always way to light to last long at all. Plus it is always coated or dyed and that means your probably going to have problems with getting something to stick to it to waterproof it. I will strongly suggest you use a proven fabric. I am constantly looking for a new supplier and/or a new fabric and so far no luck. I am talking with a mill out of Canada that was interested in making what I wanted but I have a feeling a the minimum mill run is way more fabric than I can handle. But I am waiting on some samples of what they run now and hoping that one of their fabrics will be suitable. But I have been looking for a year now so I am not getting my hopes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Treichel Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Here is a much better way to do these. I made up a jig for future cuts. Note the wood peg at the bottom and the c-clamp at the top to keep the piece from rotating. Not only safer but easier. I already have a variety of jigs for other purposes. Don't why I didn't think of it at the time. The next stage for me was making the coming ring. I decided to stick with the white oak as I have an ample supply and I really like the way it bends. I made up this simple jig from the loftings and bent an 1/8th x 1-3/4" strip around it to use as a base to clamp against. The strip refused to follow the pattern and appeared to like a slightly different shape making it slightly wider. I modified the jig to this new shape. I drilled two holes in each end of the 2 x 6 as I was uneasy about leaving the ends unclamped. In retrospect I think the 2 x 6 could have been a 2 x 4 and the 2 x 4's could have been 2 x 2's. Maybe next time. The 1/8th n oak strip proved rigid enought to allow subsequent strips to be bent around it w/o distorting the jig. I isolated the lap joint with a piece of poly and then started laminating strips around the jig, two pieces with lap joints. Subsequent piece with butt joints and the last piece a single long strip with a lap (scarf) joint. I ended up using about every clamp I owned, every 2-3". The I followed up with the rim made from 3, 1/8 x 1/2" strips. Powerplaned, hand planed, and sanded the tops and bottoms. Then filled in any cracks with epoxy and smeared more over the top and bottom of all the laminations. (I will probably also use epoxy to seal any end grain on the frames and fillet in some of the joined pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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