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Long Shot is dead * Long live Long Shot!


Kudzu

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm brand new here...never built a kayak, but moving to NW Arkansas in a month, where there are lots of lakes.  I plan to build something over the winter months, and be on the water next spring.  Jeff, that is the most beautiful boat I think I have ever seen.  Just awesome!

 

 

Lon in California

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Jeff.

 

First, nice boat!  I love the shape and love the paint, too.  A cultivated character, this one.  

 

I myself, am re-skinning my first boat, a Nikumi 19, at the moment and making a few mods.

 

I'm interested in using Kevlar roving, Monfort style, as you have to stiffen up a similar boat, and was hoping you could help.  

 

I really like this idea.  I wish I could find more info from Airolite about their skinning method - I will be using clear PVC, and not shrinking or stretching it appreciably - but I do want a stiffer boat than I have now. 

 

 

- Where did you get the roving, what are the specs?

 

- Does it tie well? Or do the strands break? Does it grip itself?  What kind of knots did you use?  Do you epoxy it down after?

 

- The heat-n-bond tape, do you think it would work under clear 20-mil PVC? 

 

- Is taping / epoxying the roving to each stringer part of the process?  Would you recommend it?

 

- Is the difference in stiffness noticeable, overall, does the boat perform better?

 

 

Thanks, and regards,

 

- Mike

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First off, you will find the clear plastic to be VERY fragile! If you ever tear it it can/will rip wide open. It looks very cool but it is not a practical choice.

 

- Where did you get the roving, what are the specs?

 

 

 The only place I know that carries it is Aircraft Spruce.  You can find them online. Don't remember the specs but they will have all that.

 

- Does it tie well? Or do the strands break? Does it grip itself?  What kind of knots did you use?  Do you epoxy it down after?

 

 

Kevlar has NO stretch. So it is little tricky to work with and keep it tight. If I ever do another I  will run it underthe boat and wrap it around the gunwale a couple of times, then tie it off and continue to the other side and do the same. One long peice from front to back. I think that would be a bit easier to do.

 

Try to make it run at roughly at 45 degree angle. Because of the strength and no stretch it doesn't take much to stiffen up the boat. I over did the back and spaced it to close. 

 

I attached mine with the heat and bond tape and it worked OK, but I wasn't to impresses. I don't do epoxy if I don't have to but It would work. I just don't like to work with it. 

 

- The heat-n-bond tape, do you think it would work under clear 20-mil PVC? 

 

 

I have never do clear PVC so I don't give advice on working with it. But I don't think I would trust my life to hold the skin on.

 

- Is the difference in stiffness noticeable, overall, does the boat perform better? 

 

 

This boat was much stiffer with the roving but it was a very early prototype that had some serious flex problems, so it really needed something done or it would be scrapped.

 

So the Kevlar did a great job. Would I put it on any of my other boats? No, not worth the cost or effort because I fixed that mistake and a little bit of flex is normal in these boats. If I was building one of my boats to race where even a little bit of advantage might mean the difference in 1st and 2nd I would use it.

 

Did it improve the performance? Depends on your definition of improved performance. It no longer flexes excessively so that is improved. Is it faster? Not that I can tell but I would imagine there is some VERY small gain but nothing you can see or feel.

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Thanks, Jeff :)

 

I've found the 20mil clear to be plenty strong for my needs so far.  I'm OK with being careful with my boat - most of my paddling is in clear lakes and I have smooth sandy places and docks to put in at.

 

I built my Nikumi 19 quite light, substituting 5/8" stringers for the specified 3/4" and reducing the gunwales from 1.5" to 1" - she's about 27lbs.  Being only 160lbs myself, the slight flex is OK for me, but I'd like to control the rocker a little better to make her track more predictably.  

 

I may have a go at a vertical truss between the keel and deckridge as well.  Can't hurt.

 

Thanks again for your help. 

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  • 4 months later...

Lots of photos today and a good bit of progress too. I have started skinning the boat using the 8 oz polyester as I use on most of my boats.

 

I started sewing the skin around the boat, pulling it snug as I stitch. The one trick I learned when I skinned the first Firefly was to start at the cockpit and sew toward the bow. STOP, before you get to the bow and sew the Bifid bow first! Just trust me on this.

 

Sewing the Bifid is always tricky and my first attempt didn't go to well. I had to remove a lot of my stitches and try again. Second time around looked much better. I ended up with a couple of puckered spots but I expected that and they will (should) pull tight once I shrink the skin.

 

jeffs-22.jpg

Another thing I am doing different is I am using Heat N Bond tape on the front of the bow to hold the skin in place. It is heat activated adhesive tape and you literally iron it on to the wood. Then peel off the paper backing, stretch the fabric tight and iron the fabric to bond it to the tap. I found it fairly easy to work with has a really good bond in one direction.

 

If I lift the fabric I can peel it off easy enough. But when pulling across the bonded area and not lifting it has a really good grip. So in this application it works really well. But it is not a permanent solution.

 

Once the boat is painted, I will be adding a bronze rub strip, screwed in place over it to finish it off. That will hide the exposed edges of the fabric and provide a very durable rub strip in the most damage prone area of the boat. And I think it will look better than stitching does.

WOOPS! This is the stern and I used the tape there too. When I was trimming the excess fabric I stood on the wrong side of the boat and couldn't see that I was hitting the corner with my hot knife and melting the fabric. If this were a clients boat I would have started over, but since it was mine I decided to repair it instead.

Using a curved needle I ran several stitches close together though the fabric behind the melted edge.

Once it is pulled tight and the thread trimmed close you can barely eve see it. After it is painted and the brass rub strip is in place, I think it will take a sharp eye to ever spot it.

I did something a little different on the sewn seams this time. I usually just do a whip stitch and pull it tight. That makes it resemble 3 braid rope. This time I did 2 whip stitches from opposite sides and I only pulled the thread snug so that it did collapse the rolled fabric. This leaves me with a smooth bead down the center and it will give the boat a cleaner look.

 

Here is the stern after I shrunk the fabric a little. If you remember I really struggled with the design for the stern and now I couldn't be happier with this. It still looks traditional but it has a little flair and is not just squared off like many were. I never liked  the squared off corners but I love this!

Check out those straight seams! Yea, I am bragging just a little bit.  I need to install the coaming and finish the seam around the Bifid bow, which I am not looking forward too! That is going to be hardest part of the sewing.

The white coaming is a first for me, I usually varnish them but this will has a 'special' paint job so I decided to paint it to match. And that's the only hint you going to get on paint job.

Jeff (anyone) I am about to skin my firefly and will most likely try the heat and bond tape. I went to Amazon and searched for heat and bond , there are hundreds of choices to pick from lite, to ultra.  tapes  to sheets etc...  which tape should i use?  I take it you heat the fabric and glue it where you want and then seal the boat right over the taped seam. Did you tack it at all or staple it at all before you painted? I see the brass strip in the photo is that all that is needed to secure the fabric.

Glad to hear you did not do too much damage to yourself with the band saw, it could have been a real disaster.

I bought a box of ss screws and ss finish washers for the rigging of the three kayaks I am building I am using a piece of strap for a loop and will screw them to the gunnel as you have shown. I am not sure if I screw to the top of the gunnel or into the side of the gunnel which direction do I use?

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i just picked up the heat and bond at WalMart. I think I got the heavy duty, but I just use stainless staples now. I can pull the skin tighter that way. I needed the heat and bond for the kelvar roving used on that one so I gave it a shot.

 

I put the nylon loops on top. You can install the screws so they are inside the look and totally hidden. I think that looks the best.

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