gorn Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hi Guys and Girls I have decided that Shad is the boat for me to build, I love the lines, and like the better tracking of longer kayaks. Having said all this, I havent kayaked since I was a child, so Im long overdue. SOF is art into transportation for me, I like looking at the frames more than the finished boat! ha! Anyway, onto Shad. Im 39, weigh 194lb, and am a huge 5'6" tall 1: Will I bee flippin and flopping around in the boat being a smaller person? 2: How well does Shad handle ocean going day travel in rougher waters? Im not keen on rough water myself, but conditions can change fast. Having said that, Im keen to learn rough water skills at a later date. 3:Being Im a newbie, will Shad be too unstable for me? I have very good reflexes, and a good general balance for things. Im thinking to hell with it, get building 4: Judjing from most comments, its only Polyester that takes paint right? Whats the heavieast useable gaugh for SoF? and is it really MUCH harder to sew on than Nylon? 5: Im still leaning construction styles here, but what are the advantages of cocpit style construction vs kayaks made by many steamed ribs? Is it weight related, cost related, or just a stronger design? 6: Is there a paint stencal to put the Kudzu Kayaks logo on the boat? Im getting ready for my first order soon, which will be plans, sinnew, book 1, and skin. I have a LOT of depressive and anxiety issues, and have long held the thaught that being in a kayak on the water may help me stay calm and relaxed like nothing else. It also allows the explorer in me to be free. Thanks for your time, look forward to some good answers Aaron Lastly, the green and black on thre Kudzu website.....oh how Ive been daydreaming my days away on that bad boy. Beatiful colours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Martin Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I will add a few comments to your Q5 about fuselage vs steamed ribs. I have the books by Cunningham, Morris, Brinck and Starr on building the traditional SOF. I understand the methods but unless I had an "elder" who had done it a lot to me it seems to be a roll of the dice as to whether the kayak would be good or not. How much rocker, where to put the chines, how much v in the ribs? I have a Necky Chatham 17 and a Valley LV Aquanaunt and I guesss I could try an measure rocker and chine placement based on what I like but again to me that seemed hit or miss. Jeff has taken the time to design fuselage boats that he himself has built, tuned, fixed, tuned and run the hydrostatic numbers. He has done all of the trial and error and so when you get his plans or his pre-cut forms there is no question where the chines go or how much rocker since it is all built in and based off of the strongback and the forms. If you are deciding between the paper plans or the pre-cut forms you need to look at your tools and your access to good plywood. In fuselage kayaks the strongback and the forms set the shape. I bought the plans but after messing with the plans and my tools I question my original decision. My saber saw I got from dad seemed to die, so I had to buy a new saw and my band saw tire decided to break so new tire is ordered. Yes it is fun to do the whole thing by yourself but it is your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Im 39, weigh 194lb, and am a huge 5'6" tall 1: Will I bee flippin and flopping around in the boat being a smaller person? You will fit fine. This is not a small boat but it is lower volume, more in line with the traditional boat. So there isn't a huge amount of space. But it is not so small you have wiggle your way in as you would the original. 2: How well does Shad handle ocean going day travel in rougher waters?Im not keen on rough water myself, but conditions can change fast. Having said that, Im keen to learn rough water skills at a later date. Good question and keep in mind I live on a larger river so I don't have open water to paddle in. We get short steep waves and it does fine in that. But it is totally different than dealing with surf conditions. The real key in rough conditions in the paddlers skill as much as the boat. A novice paddler in the best ocean boat is still going to get himself in trouble. So your skill are what will keep you safe. 3:Being Im a newbie, will Shad be too unstable for me?I have very good reflexes, and a good general balance for things. Im thinking to hell with it, get building Assuming you're typical you will find it a bit tender (tippy) at first and within a hour you paddle it without thinking about it much. A few people have been in similar designs of mine and within 10 minutes are comfortable.. It is less stable than most commercial boats but I still say stability is over rated and over thought by most new paddlers. You give up some stability to gain in other areas. I am confident you be fine in it. 4: Judjing from most comments, its only Polyester that takes paint right?Whats the heavieast useable gaugh for SoF? and is it really MUCH harder to sew on than Nylon? Each fabric takes a different technique. You can't sew (most) nylon on the same way as polyester. It's not that one is harder than the other to sew, they are just different. Check out the how-to videos on my web site. 5: Im still leaning construction styles here, but what are the advantages of cocpit style construction vs kayaks made by many steamed ribs?Is it weight related, cost related, or just a stronger design? Fuselage frame is about a simple a method as they come and it is fast. Traditional methods are harder but probably stronger because of all the ribs to spread the load across. I just don't the fact you build by eye. That never appealed to me. 6: Is there a paint stencal to put the Kudzu Kayaks logo on the boat? No, but I might be able to come up with a couple of vinyl logos. I have a few left I had cut for myself. I want to get some more cut but it's just been low on the list. Im getting ready for my first order soon, which will be plans, sinnew, book 1, and skin. You don't need to the book but of course I will sell you one. The assembly manual will show exactly how to build the boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 SOF is art into transportation for me, I like looking at the frames more than the finished boat! ha! That says it Sculpture that you paddle.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorn Posted November 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Thank you for all of your replies Makes deciding on some things much much easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingBear Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 The solo paddeling is very relaxing if you enjoy your solitude. If you are going to be paddeling in open seas the Vardo design might be a better choice as well as being a little more stable at 17' X 24" wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Time out! Size of a boat doesn't tell you much about the stability. In the world of plastic consumer boats that have mostly flat bottoms this generalization what will probably hold true. But it is not an accurate indicator of stability. Two boats of the same width can have widely different stability levels. I can design a 26" wide boat that would have near zero stability but making the bottom circular. Judging a boats stability buy it's width is a commonly made mistake. An example in my boats is Sling Shot at 23" x 18' 9" is way less stable than Curlew which is 23" x 15'. Secondly, more stability in big waves is not always a good thing. The boat wants to stay parallel with the face of the wave, not the bottom of the ocean. If you are on the face of a big wave you find yourself being rolled over. A less stable boat will not try as hard to stay parallel with the face of the wave. More and more I convinced that stability is way over rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorn Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Jeff I much prefer the idea that the boat will move "with" the wave, and not fight it and tip me out Im with you on differing levels of stability for different conditions. Been reading as much as I can take on Kayaking lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 An in-depth article on "stability".... http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/information/kayak_design/kayak_stability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Great article woodman. Probably the biggest difficulty new kayakers have with understanding stability is that the same design features that make a kayak stable getting in and out and while in flat water make them unstable in waves as Jeff describes in his post. That article does a great job of simplifying the concept for those who have never imagined or considered this. And the bottom line is that a good part of kayak stability comes from the kayaker. And if you are not amicable to being part of the solution of stability by learning to compensate you might want to consider a different kind of boat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 And the bottom line is that a good part of kayak stability comes from the kayaker. And if you are not amicable to being part of the solution of stability by learning to compensate you might want to consider a different kind of boat Somethings just come natural to some people.....When it comes to balancing and being on top yet appear to be out of control has a lot to do with shifting weight while in motion...something I was doing at 28 yrs.. of age... http://s147.beta.pho...945602157662615 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingBear Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 ??? So is Vardo not your most stable design in the 15 foot and longer boats for large lake and open sea paddeling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Yes it is the most stable. But that doesn't mean it is the best for big water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingBear Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I experianced some 20 knot winds and white caps this weekend and I'm now more understanding why less can be more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorn Posted November 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 Ive finally ordered the Shad plans, sinew, thread, 8oz covering, and the 1st book. Im looking forward to going wood shopping soon Can anyone tell me what woods and qty I will need? Id like to make sure I have what I need when the plans arrive, as its a fairly long drive into the city for me, and its getting closer and closer to Christmas. Has anyone built a Shad, and painted it in bright colours? (besides the lime green in promo pics) Im thinking blaze orange for mine, mostly from a safety perspective, as I will be paddling alone. So if anyone needs to find me if things go bad Id just like to scout around for different schemes and color combos is all. Doesnt have to be a Shad, mostly looking for the colors. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 If trying to get close to the amount of cedar..I wouldn't know..I'd get a couple of 8' and a couple of 10' cedar 2x4's and a 5x5 sheet of Baltic birch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 A good oil based or polyurethane deck and porch enamel works well on these boats. You will find most paint stores can mix this paint to any color in their system. Which if you are like most people is more colors than you could ever consider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted November 25, 2012 Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 Boaters will see you long before they will see the boat. Boat is to low to the water, what catches most peoples eye is the motion of you paddling. It is what I always see first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted November 25, 2012 Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 According to the sales people at the largest kayak outfitter in my area orange is the most popular color for kayaks they sell by far. It is for the reason mentioned above. The experienced sales people there question whether it helps much for safety too. It may be useful at see when you are being searched for from the air though if your deck is orange. Most ocean racing sailboats have orange keels and rudders for this very reason as they are in the most trouble and hence need to be found when upside down. Hmmm, maybe orange paddle blades is the way to be seen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorn Posted November 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Interesting to hear that about your local store. Im wondering, if the kayak is in one piece, will it naturally roll upright without a person sat in it, or will excess water hold it whichever way its been rolled by water conditions? I ask this, as if the kayak naturally rolls upright, then only the deck color is important as a safety item for me, but if not, then the whole kayak must be easily visible. The whole concern for me, being a newby, and doing it solo, is if the worst happens, and I am seperated from my kayak, then at least the kayak can be seen easily by anyone looking for me, which may give them a better idea of the area I am in. Im not planning on this happening of course, but its better safe than sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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