15 replies to this topic

[Scott Dunsworth]

I was looking over my Belhaven plans tonight to answer a question for a friend. Suddenly I find I have been studying them for an hour like a kid in a candy store. Here I am over my head on a new 28 footer and wishing like all get-out I was building another Belhaven. With a few modifications of course. Its kind of like I should go to AA classes for hopeless builders. Or maybe the Belhaven was such a perfect fit for the solo cruising I loved to do so much.
If I was building another she would be without the quarter berth and a bigger galley with a great ice hold. She would have about 10 inches of length added to the stern with a motor well and to keep my ALWAYS over loaded boat from dragging water behind the transom. That's not a design flaw if built to spec's, but a captain issue of overloading the big cockpit lockers with too much stuff.
When I sold my boat to Rick I thought I would never get done unloading her.
It sure was fun digging through the plans tonight. Anyway she is a great boat and I will always miss mine.

Scott

These pictures are from a 300 mile 10 day cruise Jerry C. and I took, along with Don and Gail in their Catalina 22 a few years ago.

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[bruegf]

Hi Scott,

I'm curious as to why you'd extend the Belhaven instead of going with the PS22? I keep looking at both boats and am not sure which I would choose if I were to build a small cruising sailboat.

Fred

[Scott Dunsworth]

First let me say they are both great boats. I just prefer the more modern look of the Belhaven over the Princess. ( Just a personal opinion )
Even if I added 10" to the Belhaven she would still be under 20 feet which is important to me with a v6 pickup. Like I said earlier I tend to overload my boat and some more area in the stern would help with my problem. The Belhaven also has slightly more head room and I like most of the cabin layout better. Not saying its better, but for me I like it.
The pictures of her at anchor shows her sitting pretty close to the way she should. That was at the end of a long trip and she wasn't carrying near as much stuff then. She also didn't have my lard butt in her. I raised the water line on her 1 1/2 inch's so she should be setting a little higher yet.
I also live in the land of rivers, Ohio, Cumberland, if you have ever done much sailing on rivers you know the winds ether on your nose or at your back. So we would have to motor more than we ever wanted to. The motor well would help quite the beast a great deal.
I used my boat a lot and very often for a week or sometimes two at a time. So on a new one I would want even more carrying capacity for a water tank and get reid of all those portable water jugs. A very large ice hold would be added too. A portable tiller table that could be stored in the lockers would be nice also. "Getting the picture I was making a 30 foot cruiser out of a 19 foot boat."
If a person was using her for a overnight-er all the time, and was much more conservative about what they took along I wouldn't change a thing. BUT that's not me.

[bruegf]

Thanks for your insights Scott. I like the settee berths of the PS22 over the v-berth of the Belhaven, but the extra head room is a really nice feature as is the lighter weight. No idea which way I'd go if I decide to build. Haven't ever built a boat, so probably will start w/ a Spindrift just to see what I'd be getting myself into.

Fred

[tom151]

These pictures are from a 300 mile 10 day cruise Jerry C. and I took, along with Don and Gail in their Catalina 22 a few years ago.

Darn it - that is a pretty boat.

Out of curiousity...
* do you keep the full 300# ballast aboard when loaded for cruising?
* if not, have you any feeling for how the boat would do without the ballast (esp when loaded)
* will the boat self-right without the 300# ballast - with NO CREW in the boat?

Inquiring minds - maybe this is the boat I've been looking for (without the ballast ) the more I see of her the more she looks like a winner (yes, stretched a foot or so for me too).

[Scott Dunsworth]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want the ballast. Its fixed as a shoe on the front half of the boat. These are questions you need to ask Graham, but I don't think I would want her without it.
I have had her knocked on her side twice from my own laziness to reef or just seeing what I could get by with by myself. Both times was in high winds, one time that day a few tractor trailers got blew over on the interstate, so I didn't feel that bad. Both times she jumped right back on her feet so quickly I had a hard time sorting out what just happened.
She always felt safe when I would treat her right and reef when I should.

[tom151]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want the ballast. Its fixed as a shoe on the front half of the boat. These are questions you need to ask Graham, but I don't think I would want her without it.

Thanks Scott,
Sounds like she's very stable from your experience in those high/gusty winds
Didn't get the fact that the ballast in in a shoe (at least I din't get) that from the B&B web description of the boat - so not intended to be "variable" ballast by Graham.
All that aside, you built a real beauty there.
Cheers,

[TrailerSailor]

Nice boat

[maligno]

why you'd extend the Belhaven instead of going with the PS22?

I had the same dilemma too but eventually went with the Belhaven because it looked easier to build and is lighter than the Princess 22. My principal reason for extending the hull at the transom is to keep the outboard within easy reach. I've had enough hairy times fiddling with a transom-mounted motor.

[TrailerSailor]

Hello Scott

 

Could you please tell me what kind of ply you used to build the Belhaven and how much of lead you put on her for ballasting?

[Scott Dunsworth]

I used all Meranti, if doing it again I would use Meranti for the hull bottom, cabin top, centerboard trunk, cockpit seat tops, cockpit sole and cockpit combing. Okoume for hull sides, bulkheads, cabin sides and interior parts. This would give me a toughness where needed and lighter weight where the extra hardness isn't really needed.

I had 325 lbs of lead ballast and 30 lbs in the centerboard.

 

Good luck, she is a wonderful design! I mess my Belhaven almost daily. I have about 6 sailing videos on youtube, I watched them the other night just to increase my misery.      

 

Scott

[TrailerSailor]

Hello Scott

 

Thank you for your answer.

 

I watch your videos every day and think a lot of how to build and fit her. So I have different options for to choose the wood. The option with meranti for the cabintop and others I didnt have before, but I will think about that for sure. Do you think it really makes a big difference in stiffness? Im just 85kg...

 

 

So I thought about

 

- building from okume completely

 

- bottom meranti, rest okume

 

- bottom and interior meranti, rest okume

 

 

Im not thinking about using big sheets of glass, but she shall get three layers of epoxi outsides and inside under water. The ballast can get a bit more if the hull is lighter....

 

 

 

I saw some pics where it seems that she sits a bit to much on her tail. So I will keep her lightweight as possible there. First I wanted a 5 or 6 hp outboard, but I think a 3,5 from Tohatsu or Mercury will be enough and this engine ( both the same) has only a weight from 17-18kg...

 

Im thinking about different masts too. Maybe hollow wooden masts with a bit of carbon would be nice. I have to look how much work it will be and I dont know if they will become more lightweight than such fabric made profiles from alloy....

[Hirilonde]

I think if I were to use Meranti at all on a plywood boat it would be for the bottom.  I like light weight.  If ballast is a good idea, I would rather choose exactly where it goes.

 

For an unstayed mast you will have a hard time building anything lighter than, yet still plenty strong with anything but aluminum.  There are some nice wooden masts out there that are plenty strong, but not lighter.  With carbon composites growing in popularity the prices are starting to come down.  If the price doesn't scare you try checking out the spar makers in your area to see if they have something you could use.

 

Displacement hulls with outboards have a tendency to hobby-horse (rock bow to stern).  This tendency is probably less with a Belhaven, but keeping weight down at the extremities is always a good idea.  You mention possibly cruising Italy.  If you mean the Adriatic side then your outboard will get some work.  Most mornings have little wind and some afternoons as well, unless of course the Bora is blowing.  It is often a hard decision deciding on where to draw the line on size for the outboard.  I prefer to always sail, but cruising sometimes makes getting to the next port today important.

[TrailerSailor]

Hi Dave

Thank you for your post.

If the Belhaven is not too sensitive for the weight on the tail, so I would go to 5hp. This engines (same tohatsu or mercury) will be about 27kg, so around ten more than the 3,5hp. But daily sailing will be on the lake with me, my wife and our 2 small children (they are 6 and 2 years old now). So I hope she will not (how to say in english?) suck to the water with the tail. I did sail a lot of Waarschip, and the small 570 did this. So you had to store everything in front and take the people in front too, because she was sensitive for the weight. She was a beautiful sailor, but this is a point that I dont like and want to minimize. If the strength from okume is enough I would prefer it all over the boat. So she will become more stable for rough condition sailing.

I really always sail if possible, but of course it needs the wind for that. My first place to sail will be here in switzerland We have thermic winds here on lake thun, but a lot of little wind too. This is my daily need. But I want to sail by sea in the northsea and baltic sea, some inland areas from the netherland too. If going to the mediterran sea, so I prefer france and spain. But why not to go to italy and croatia. There are so many nice places all around and I bet the Belhaven will be happy to travel there and sail many different places like me too.

Im waiting for the plans from Graham to see more. He wants to take an overlook for them. I get the metric plans and he wants to make sure that the plans are absolute current. Im waiting for the book from Devlin too. When I got this and studied everything i will know more. But the expiriences from people who build and sailed her are very welcome and of course I know Graham is always there too....;-)

I hope that you understand me well. I sometimes dont know what words to use for sailing vocabular. Dont have a internet translater which knows about that.

[Scott Dunsworth]

I had an older 4.5 hp on the transom, and then there's those big lockers that I always had overloaded.

[TrailerSailor]

Yes,...but you wrote that she nevertheless sailed well with this, right?