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Introduction and epoxy question


timbo2

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Hi there, new poster here. First time boat builder who has been building Grahams Mandy/Amanda dingy, and having a lot of fun doing so except for epoxying. Seems I get fairly severe face/forearms irritation after an epoxying secession. Puffy eyes, bags under my eyes, really itchy arms, etc. So much so that I'm reluctant to even epoxy anymore. Has anyone else had this problem? It's very hard to cover myself up in 95-100 degree heat. I've recently been using two box fans which I set on one end of the boat and try to always stay in the breeze while I spread the epoxy. Anyone have similar experiences, and if so, any tips on how to minimize this problem?

Timpost-2224-0-51188000-1345493542_thumb.jpgpost-2224-0-84455700-1345493633_thumb.jpgpost-2224-0-15781500-1345493679_thumb.jpgpost-2224-0-53309800-1345493758_thumb.jpgpost-2224-0-71272700-1345493801_thumb.jpg

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One can become "sensitized" to epoxy after years of consistent use, as in working in a production facility. The time span relates to hair color (not kidding) with redheads going first, followed by blondes, and last are brown haired folks. That said, I'm a blonde and have been using epoxy since the early `80s for hobby builds of several dozen boats. No problem. You might try a different brand of epoxy. My fav brand is WEST and it has a rep for being kind to bipedal creatures.

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Yeah, but Timbo is a new user of epoxy and having systemic reactions not just contact dermatitist type issues. If he is working pretty clean alreadya nd not contaminating himself frequently, I would be fairly worried about a systemic senistivization to epoxy that would not bode well for long term use of it.

Now, if we are smearing it on frequently and using acetone to clean it off, that is a different story.

Use Nitril gloves, work cleana nd wipe off accidnetlal oopses with waterless hand cleaner prefereably or vinegar as opposed to acetone, Do not use acetone for tool cleaning either. Vinegar works fine, is less toxic if slopped on skin and is much cheaper than acetone. Aboid sanding green epoxy. Let it cure fully before sanding. Avoid being around epoxy vapors when spread out.

But if we are working clean and reacting, we really need to avoid the stuff when it is not cured..

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I agree with Scott, switch epoxy brands, as some are much worse than others. The non-blush hardeners are usually better than the regular formulations.

West System and FGCI products seem to be the worst, in regard to some folks sensitivity. I also agree with Ray in that he seems to be reacting from multiple issues. I suspect he's reacting to freshly cured and sanded epoxy, plus the alkaline nature of the epoxy itself.

If you're sensitive, you have to take extra precautions, and yes this means covering in 90+ heat. Yep, it sucks, but it's the only way, particularly around dust that has yet fully cured. It takes about a week for epoxy to fully cure and a month before it's actually inert. Sanding freshly cured epoxy is very hazardous, besides the particulate damage it can do to your lungs. If possible, let the epoxy cure for a week, before sanding, as it's less chemically active and you only have to protect against the particulate issues, for the most part.

Also, instead of standing down wind of the fans, stand up stream of the flow and let the fans draw off the dust, but not stir up a cloud around you. Simply put, place the fans next to your work area, so they suck the dust off the work and blow it down wind. A duct also helps, meaning on the blowing side of the fan, install a big duct (a cardboard box fold up will do), so the dust, after passing through the fan is directed further away, preferably outdoors, so it doesn't just cloud up in a big ball, just aft of the fan. In short, if you have sanding dust all over the shop when you're done a job, you can guarantee you'll be eating, breathing and wearing lots of it. I use a duct to send dust outside the shop, which makes life inside the shop a lot easier to live with and lots less dust too.

Lastly, plan your epoxy "runs" so you can prepare for them. Save up gluing, bonding, sheathing chores so you can suit up, arrange fans, etc. and do it all at once, within a protective environment. Ditto with epoxy sanding operations.

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You can successfully cover up in the hot weather in your shorts and a throw away suit. They come with a hood and seperate boot covers. This leaves only your face. A electric vented, filtering face cover is quite wearable. This isn't the cheapest option but I don't think cost is the primary reason here.

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Thanks for all the great responses, fellas. BradW, sounds like you've got very similar reactions to mine. I don't know what epoxy Graham supplied with the kit I bought, but it doesn't like me! I suspect that a lot of epoxys will bother me. I've decided to move the boat outdoors, and only sand/epoxy in breezy weather, plus buy a full face respirator. This really sucks as there are so many steps involving epoxying, but I guess it's what I've got to do if I want to finish this project.

Tim

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Scraping off the drips and blobs while they are still not set is better still. I always make a point to go back and look things over a bit after finishing a set up as gravity always has it's way. Going back and dressing up withthe squeegiee saves a woprld of hurt before it klicks off .

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Ray and I are on the same page with this. There have been many a night that I've chased down sags and drips before the goo made me cuss the following day. You save so much time by "nursing" the freshly applied goo, then sanding or scraping. An epoxy run typically isn't very long, before the gloves come off and you're admiring your handy work. It doesn't stop there, you have to chase down the drips, sags and other movement or you'll spend 10 times as much time fixing it later. A 20 minute epoxy run is followed by a couple of hours of nurse maiding the goo.

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.One can become "sensitized" to epoxy after years of consistent use, as in working in a production facility. The time span relates to hair color (not kidding) with redheads going first, followed by blondes, and last are brown haired folks That said, I'm a blonde and have been using epoxy since the early `80s for hobby builds of several dozen boats. No problem. You might try a different brand of epoxy. My fav brand is WEST and it has a rep for being kind to bipedal creatures.

There is something to this! My wife is nearly a pure red head and she will catch any flu bug around and is sensitive to a lot of things. I'm brown haired and get sick about once every 5 or 6 years. But am sensitive to perfumes, scented candles I get a headache and sore throat. But I'm mostly Gray haired now so I don't know where I fall in at now! :o

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Yes, chasing the drips and sags is the better way to go before they set and require all that extra sanding. I HATE sanding, and so have become proficent in using cabinet scrapers and card scrapers. Like most any hand tool, the trick is learning how to sharpen them properly, or in the case ot those two tools, turning the correct burr on the cutting edge. I also use jack and block planes to cut down the edges of the set-up fiberglass tape before applying more epoxy to fill and float the tape. Card scrapers are cheap, and actually so are cabinet scrapers. A quick check on that great auction web site in the sky revealed that numerous servicable Stanley No. 80 cabinet scrapers (I use one of these) can be had for $20-50. And, you can listen to the radio as you use them! I still have to use the sandpaper afterwards, but at least the scrapers cut down on a lot of work.

Tim

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update: I bought a full face respirator, and that seems to really help. I also moved the boat outside and tried to work only when the breeze kicked up. Taped and epoxied all the joints on the hull last week, as well as applied a first epoxy coat over the entire hull without much problems as to face/arms skin sensitivity problems. While I dislike wearing the respirator, seems to have helped a lot!

Thanks to all for suggestions and info about this issue.

Tim

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One other thing no one has mentioned is what tool(s) you use for sanding. I own a number of Festool sanders that have to be seen to be believed when it comes to dust collection. I sanded old dried up carpet adhesive off a plywood floor inside a closed up 32' boat once and didn't have any sanding dust to clean up and was able to talk to my wife in a normal voice while sanding w/ the vacuum going. That said, you'll spend in the neighborhood of 800 to 1100 dollars for a sander and vacuum depending on which sander and vac you buy. I'd recommend a Rotex 90 or Rotex 125 sander and CT26 vac for a small boat or the Rotex 150 for a larger boat. Pricey, sure, but you won't be breathing or cleaning up but a tiny fraction of the dust you would otherwise. The other downside to the Festool brand is, if you appreciate very high quality tools, over time, it will cost you far more than what you spend on the first purchase, as its hard to stop buying them.

Fred

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Fred,

I've got a buddy who has a festool vac/sander set-up, and I was with him the other day while he was sanding his hull out. That rig was NICE! I'd consider getting one if I knew for sure that I'd build another boat. Just haven't decided if I will or not yet. Leaning towards the OB 20 though.

Tim

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