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CS20 sails - vertical clearance?


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  #21 Tom Lathrop

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:40 PM

Adding some to the base would be my choice but only if it's done right.

That means adding a section welded to the existing mast and then adding a plug on the inside. Welding will weaken the area around the weld but the plug will take care of that. I plugged the base of Lapwing's main mast just for insurance anyway. The best plug would be a piece of aluminum tube that fits tightly. Next would be a tube with fiberglass collars to take up the space with the collars as thin as possible. I made this kind of reinforcement for Southern Skimmer's main mast. The plug was set in epoxy to insure that good contact was made between the mast and plug.

Lots of big boat masts are joined in sections with plugs and screws.

  #22 wkisting

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:12 AM

I'm inclined to agree that it could be done, but Graham convinced me it would be safer and simpler to extend the tops.

One benefit of extending the tops is that I'll still be able to lower my sails back down to their present, very low position, which means I can always return to the stability level I've become so comfortable with over the past 4 years. I think the only hardware modifications will be to move the halyard blocks, add a little sail track, and maybe add a second attachment point for the snotters if the angle of the sprit comes out too low after the raise.

Another option I considered was just removing the entire top 6' section of 2" o.d. tubing from the existing masts and fitting a 7' or 8' section in its place (with the usual epoxy bushing and collar treatment). But that would be more permanent and costly, and I would end up unable to close my garage door unless I made that whole top section of the main mast removable. Still, that probably would've been the "best" fix in terms of minimizing any added weight--just in case anyone else finds themselves with a similar dilemma (but a longer garage and a larger wallet). :)
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Wes Kisting
Core Sound #102 "Second Wind"

  #23 wkisting

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 08:48 AM

I took some scrap and (temporarily) extended the main 9-1/2" this morning. Then I put the main in the mizzen step, to see what a 13" taller mizzen would look like. This is what I came up with:

Main has about 17" clearance above deck at the sail tack (versus 7" previously), and about 36" above seat tops where little Bella is standing--plenty to clear passengers' heads.

Mizzen has at least 34" clearance above thwart at the sail tack (versus 16" previously), but can be hoisted high enough to get 40" of clearance if I want to install a short (36") bimini in the aft cockpit. That would be very nice during hot Georgia summers, but I had abandoned the idea until now because the sails were too low.

What do you think? I spliced this photo together, but it looks much more like the photos of other CS boats I've seen. Anyone have a bimini on their Core Sound? Positive or negative experiences? I've never seen a photo of a CS20 or 17 with a bimini in place.

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Wes Kisting
Core Sound #102 "Second Wind"

  #24 Steve W

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 08:59 AM

On my Spindrift 11N I'm just finishing, the mast is in three pieces, with the top section having a wooden extension. I took a nice pice of spanish cedar, and laminated a blank made of three pieces, with the center piece thinned so a pulley sheeve could fit nice. I then cut it on my tablesaw into a 16 sided shape close to the upper masts diameter. To make it fit into the aluminum mast, I put a fence with a stop on my router table, and raised a end bit up enough to recuce the circumfrence, and kept feeding it on the flats until it was close to the right diameter. I sanded it until it fit. , and then shaped it with a small hand plane and some sandpaper into a nice extension. Once I was done, I realized the back side could be tapered to reduce weight, so I did that.

It's pretty darn light, and since it only carries a couple square feet of sail that high, I think plenty strong. I don't think carrying this idea to 2 feet would be a problem. Best part was the pulley sheave cost 1.49, and the spanish cedar was from the scrap pile.


Take Care,
Steve

  #25 wkisting

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:34 AM

That's what Graham suggested too. Since my main mast extension needs to be removable, though, I was worried wood might swell if it gets wet and make the extension hard or impossible to pull out when I need to disassemble it to stow in the garage. Hence the aluminum collar idea. The scrap piece I worked up today, though was 2" o.d. tubing and a 6" spline of shaped Douglass Fir (plus a little blue painter's tape to snug up the fit exactly). Just judging by feel, it can't weigh more than a pound--probably less--so it didn't feel any harder to step the main mast. I was very pleased. With a hollow aluminum spline, I think it will be even lighter.

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Wes Kisting
Core Sound #102 "Second Wind"

  #26 Terry Dunn

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 10:54 AM

Regarding the bimini question: I have a bimini for my CS20. It fits under my mizzen nicely. It is nice to have on sunny days when there is not much wind. I had it on for the 2008 T200 but did not like to sail with it up in the high winds so it was folded down while sailing. There were people sailing with biminis up. The bimini was nice to have when stopped for the day. I did not take it on the 2011 T200. It was nice to sail without it but I did miss not having it when stopped for the day. I have not had it on the boat for a while since it seems to be real windy most of the time I sail.

I looked at my plans. The diagram of the mast build shows 22'. On the diagrams with sails If I add the luff to the part under the luff for the main it comes to about 21' 7" . The mizzen perhaps a foot shorter. I should have written that down 'cause I don't remember real well. My intrepretation of the plans got me to 22'. When the sails had sleeves it would have been better to be shorter. With the sail tracks I like the 22' masts. I do tend to not raise them all of the way but it is nice to ba able to on the light air days.

I am in the process fo building balanced lug sails with 16' masts. One of these days I will test that out.
Terry Dunn CS20 #36

Colorado

  #27 wkisting

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:45 AM

Slightly off topic, but yesterday I posted my first sailing video:


I have one reef tied in, and my sails are set slightly higher than usual (by maybe 2"-3"). But you can see that I don't have much visibility under the main (none if the boat heels a little) and none under the mizzen. (To see around the mizzen, I either have to lean far forward to look ahead of the mizzen mast or else climb down off the rail and duck low to see to the other side... it's really annoying if there's any concern about boat traffic nearby.)
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Wes Kisting
Core Sound #102 "Second Wind"

  #28 Terry Dunn

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:00 PM

Enjoyed the video.
I bought my plans in 2002. Started the build after thankgiving and put her in the water in August, 2003. Converted from sleeves to sail track in 2007. I did not have a sheet for sail track.
The sleeved sails were great for getting in the water quick but not so great when the wind would get strong.

When reefed I often have my sails low so visibility is a problem regardless hot tall my masts. That is why it is good to have my wife along. Both for the ballast and the "don't run over that boat" warnings. She is better at the warning part than the ballast part.

Now trhat I am 10 years older and have back issues I would like a CS 17 or CS 15. And a couple of puddle ducks. And a rowing wherry. And a ....
I am sure you will enjoy the longer masts.
Terry Dunn CS20 #36

Colorado

  #29 Howard

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:40 AM

Wes:

Nice video. Boat is hauling!

Was racing last week in more wind than it looks like you had and I was not reefed and was going considerably slower (my 17 foot sloop). I still took 3rd on a 6 mile race. At the speed you were going, and if your CS20 will tack through 100 degrees, you could have sailed our race course twice and lapped the last place finishers.

Spindrift 10N #529

Princess 26 - Under Construction


  #30 wkisting

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:52 AM

In that clip, I'm on a broad reach in 12 - 14 mph winds, occasionally slacking to 8 mph. The boat was making about 6 - 7 knots average. In the latter part of the video, it climbs onto a plane right before I bend the camera down to show the 6.9 knots reading, then when I bend down again, if you watch close it just touches 8.0 knots before falling into the mid-7s. Each time I bend off the rail to show the GPS, the boat heels and spills a little wind from the sails so I start slowing down. I think the best I probably did (when not holding the camera) was about 8.4 knots, but I wasn't watching very closely--just enjoying the ride.
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Wes Kisting
Core Sound #102 "Second Wind"

  #31 wkisting

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:23 AM

A quick update... after my experimental measurements, I settled on adding 12" to the main and 14" to the mizzen. I had my dad make a pair of 6" long aluminum collars (1/8" wall thickness) that just fit inside the I.D. of the top mast tubing to join on the extension pieces. They came out nice and light, albeit probably a few grams heavier than if I had used solid Fir. I have the masts all repainted now, too. Just waiting on a few pieces of hardware to upgrade some of my rigging controls.
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Wes Kisting
Core Sound #102 "Second Wind"

  #32 wkisting

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:59 PM

One last update on the mast extension project... I have installed the extensions and repainted the masts. The main came out to 22'3"L and the mizzen is 21'3"L. I have a lot more head clearance under each sail, and it looks much closer to the pics of other CS17's and CS20's I've seen. The added height changed the angle on my sprits, so I'm adding a second (higher) snotter attachment point to each mast as well. Now I won't have to warn passengers (especially kids) to duck every time we tack, and I should be able to fit a small bimini for some relief from the Georgia summer sun.

Thanks to all who offered comments and measurements!

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Wes Kisting
Core Sound #102 "Second Wind"




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