ecgossett Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Attempted sailing today in 20-28knots of wind. One reef is not enough, new points will be added shortly. I also do not like how the boom lays when it is reefed, it seems low but any higher the board would have to lay differently.. Maybe I need a different point on mast for attaching s-hook. Does anybody have any CHEAP ideas for keel guards? I damaged my keel and ripped through layers of fiberglass in a couple of areas today. Do not want to pay the prices at certain marine chains for the keel guard plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter HK Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Does anybody have any CHEAP ideas for keel guards? I used a piece of aluminium about 5mm by 15mm by 6 metres, driled a few holes and screwed and sikaflexed it on. Price of aluminium was about $5. Not as pretty as nice rounded stainless/brass strips from the chandlery but as it's out of sight it doesn't worry me. Cheers Peter HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 If you want plastic buy a cutting board and cut it into strips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stewart Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 how about the rope trick. 3/4" epoxy soaked nylon rope down the keel. It might get a little fuzzy after a while but it would certainly be cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dunsworth Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 One thing I have done to the keel and trailing edge of center boards, rudders is add a mixture of silica and epoxy. I glass the sides of the keel and let the glass overhang the bottom of the keel about 1/2 inch. After its cured or set up good trim the overhang to 1/4 inch and fill the length with silica thickened epoxy. After its cure you can sand it down smooth and you have a 1/4 inch thick shoe the length of the keel. You will then have a permanent very durable shoe on your keel. I did my brothers spindrift 10n this way because he's terribly rough on stuff. You could also do the same thing if you have a finished boat by sanding the bottom of the keel down, clamping a plastic covered mold along the keel and fill with the same mixture and sand it fair after removing the mold. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docpal Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Kevlar tape is not really that expensive. According to THIS web site you should be able to get enough to do the full length of the keel for about $20- http://www.shopmaninc.com/kevlar.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I think there is some confusion as to bottoms of CB's, rudders, etc. and bottom of the keel or boat. I put a metal strip on the bottom of my keel (would use the rope trick next time), but forward of that, at the point where the bow and waterline join, is the point of contact with the bottom when the boat is beached or brought to a ramp or landing. Generally, there is nothing there to protect the boat. West Marine shows a plastic glue-on option (3M as I recall) that is listed as a keel guard for similar boats, PWC's, etc. Think of it as a scuff guard. One idea I had for that once upon a time was to use a flat nylon tow strap, similar to what is used on ratchet straps or trailer winches........and treat is as is done with the rope trick. Soak it with thickened epoxy and bend it over the V at the bow section. Others expressed a concern it would peel off and not stick. Don't know that it has ever been tried. Another option would be to simply build up a "heavy".......at least 5 layers.......layup of some type of known abrasive resistent cloth like Xynole, and simply plan on repairs. The glue on product looks good, but is expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Forsberg Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Hi! Instead of SS or alu stripe I did a mix consisting of thickened epoxy and 60grit carborundum powder. An enhancement to this I guess would be to mix in some chopped glassfiber...but for me it has held together well. I read about this on a kayak renters site, he repaired the bottoms after a couple of seasons of landing in gravel and so on. I've never liked the idea of putting alot of effort in making a waterproof hull and then drilling holes for epoxy "nuts" or just screwing something into the hull under water. BTW These mixes of epoxy and carborundum are also used for repairing pump housings in sewage treatment plants (sand/water) so it should be quite tough! But the epoxy-rope ought to be very good. /rune file://localhost/var/folders/9T/9Tdo9aRUEmKwejeFQBYXAU+++TI/-Tmp-/com.apple.mail.drag/DSC00262.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Does anyone have measurements for second reef-points (need to finish this weekend)?????? Drawing arrived from Carla bu it doesn't show the second reefpoint measurements and I don't want to take some best guesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMoon Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 On my boat, as measured along the luff starting from the tack gromment to the reefed tack grommets. Main: 1st reef - 32" 2nd reef - 35" (from 1st) Mizzen 1st reef - 26" 2nd reef - 28" (from 1st) Hope this helps. See you on Friday. If your first reef is in a different place than mine, I'd suggest just making the second equal to the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria CS20 104 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Back to topic on keel strip. I bought two 8 foot 3/16 x 1" brass strips and installed them on the keel. I made my keel piece 1" wide and 17' long and 1 1/2" high for the most part. I predrilled every 8" and at joins I added points at 3/4" at the end of the brass pieces. I made a bullets nose shape of the forward end and secured with bronze screws through and through in the forward compartment and filled in with thickened epoxy to cover the screw ends. This gives my keel strip a 17' length and the forward end curves upward to part of the bow. The keel strip is secured with 2 1/2" bronze screws every 8" along it's length and double strips of 3" fiberglass tape on each side along the bottom of the hull. The forward curve of the hull has three, 3" strips of fiberglass running from under the keel piece to the top of the forward section of the bow. Looks clean as can be, some folks think the hull is all glass, it is not, only the seams. Mopoxy paint times 5 coats on the froward section keel up to deck. Unless I hit a log at high speed I think I am fine, even in beaching on gravel rocky beaches at a bit more speed than I would want... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria CS20 104 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Screwed up, the brass I bought was two sections 1" x 3/16th" x 9', cut one down and the bottom strip is 17' 2' in lengths total, sorry about that folks. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter HK Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Get it right next time You have more keel protection than I and I'm sure it's more than enough. Cheers Peter HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 What worked and what didn't for rudder/centerboard guards. The rope worked ok where it was applied, and in some cases the rope with epoxy applied has been eaten nicely but still protected wood. 1) Did not go high enough on forward ends of centerboard and rudder. 2) In some places the wood still got sandblasted clean above/sides of rope. Out of this I think I need to find a plastic or some other type of better guard. In those places where it went to wood it ate away several layers of fiberglass tape. It's not horrible or anything but needs a second look for future sailing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Two layers of 6 ounce Kevlar on keel, and lower bow. Experimenting with the centerboard, I put two layers of kevlar on wet, then a layer of 3" 6ounce tape, it was easy to sand, no fuzzing up, and looked great. My bow I didn't put the fiberglass tape on, was fuzzy when sanding, had to cover with thickened epoxy and then massage glass tape into place over top of it to look decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokeyhydro Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I'm fond of milled glass fiber in the epoxy/fumed silica mix for beefing up points of abrasion & impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgossett Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I tested the kevlar two layers, on a thin piece of plywood between piece of wood with a hammer.. I went to town "literally" and never broke or cracked wood and kevlar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 There's two basic ways of protecting these types of things, a fixed solution, typically bonded in place or a sacrificial solution, which is bedded and lightly fastened. The sacrificial strips can be one of several things. 3/4" (19 mm) by 1/8" (3 mm) aluminum strips, are commonly available at hardware stores, usually in 48" lengths, though big box stores will often have them in 8' lengths. The aluminum used, isn't especially tough and doesn't like salt water much, but they're relatively cheap, easy to machine and bend. Half ovals in brass, bronze and stainless cost a lot more. HDPE is even more costly, unless you can find a source for longer lengths. I like the idea of being easily able to remove a dicked up piece and replace it when necessary. If you have a local welding shop, order some 6061 strips from them. They can get you a piece that will run full length and the T-6 stock, will hold up very well in saltwater. The fixed protection can run the gamut of options: embedded rope, pipe, Kevlar tape, etc. What I like most is a stone mixture set in a shallow groove. It's done just like the rope leading edge on a centerboard, except the groove is shallower and you don't have to be precise about it. Mix sand, quartz, pulverized limestone, etc. with the epoxy and pile it up on the leading edge or keel. The shallow groove just keeps it centered on the whatever you're applying it. You'd be best advised to shape as best as you can while this stuff is wet or in the green stage as sanding it really sucks when cured. Stone will dramatically increase the bulk of the epoxy you mix and the cured result is well, like stone. A stone mixture can take huge compression and impact loads and it's part of the structure, becoming the whole leading edge of a board or the whole bottom edge of a keel. It isn't easy to replace, but if you bash into something hard enough to screw up this stone edge, you'll have bigger troubles then a keel guard to fix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polecat Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'm new to this conversation but although Kevlar is good for abrasion it absorbs water. Just plain glass (re-coated annually) or some resonable aggregate as previously suggested would be good. Stainless is good for impact protection because it is quite malleable. I put 1/4 tube down the front of my kayaks (because I know the idiot who drives them). One aircraft propellor manufacturer uses thin (0.010") 'stick on' strips for impact and abrasion protection. They have a good track record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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