jerryg Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hi everyone, My Longshot blueprints call for the mounting of frames at the following locations: 1', 3'6", 5'8", 6'8", 8'2", 9'6", 11'6", 14', 16'6" It also calls for mounting 5 brackets at the following locations, 1', 5'8", 6'1", 11'6", 16"5' My questions are as follows 1) When the location for the frame and bracket are the same, does this mean that the frame should be attached to the outside of the bracket? In other words, that the frame is mounted to the bracket so it sandwiches the location the measurement? 2) If anyone has recently built a Longshot, can you verify that the location of the 6'1" bracket is correct? It seems strange to me that there should be one bracket at 5'8" and another only 5" further along, in particular because there is another frame piece at 6'8". 3) Why have a bracket at 16'5" if the frame is to be mounted at 16' 6"? The only thing I can assume is that when the frame is mounted to the bracket, it will extend to almost 16'6" (actually 16' 6.5"). Oh yes, one last question. My brackets indicate that a hole should be drilled at the 3" mark (from the bottom). But I really don't see how and where it is used. Why is it there? Thanks for any help you can offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBknox Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hello Jerry, First use a square and mark each frames location on the surface of the strongback. Cut some scrap 2x4's the width of the bracket. With the 2x4 laying flat on the strongback, stand the bracket up to the side of the 2x4. Slide it forward until your flush with the line. Secure the 2x4 only to the strongback at this time. Do this for each bracket called for on the plan. The hole at the 3" mark is to run a string for alignment. We cut a notch up from the bottom to the bottom of the hole so we could slide the bracket down over the string. Now make any type of simple bracket 3" tall and run a string from end of the strongback to the other. Sliding the frame down over the string, install the first and last brackets first using a level to keep the vertical edge plumb and the string in the center of the hole. A helper will make this alot easier. We clamped the brackets to the 2x4's and tapped them into place with a hammer to fine tune the alignment. Screw the bracket to the 2x4. Now you have a perfectly straight line to mount the rest of the brackets to. Just slide the next one down over the string, slide the 2x4 up until you're flush with the line and repeat the leveling and screwing process. Always stay to the same side of the line. You can make a bracket for each frame location if you want, you just make the cut out deep enough that it will not contact the underside of the keel stringer. On my brother's Vardo, each bracket corresponded to the location of a frame. The brackets listed on the print are what determines the shape of the keel of the boat. With these in place, you push the keel stringer down to the bottom of the slot, slide its frame onto the top, and temp secure the frame with c clamps. With all brackets in place your ready to lay the keel stringer in place and start attaching the frames. Hope this helps. Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 My Longshot blueprints call for the mounting of frames at the following locations: 1', 3'6", 5'8", 6'8", 8'2", 9'6", 11'6", 14', 16'6" It also calls for mounting 5 brackets at the following locations, 1', 5'8", 6'1", 11'6", 16"5' Jerry, something is wrong. I never use 5 brackets on my boats, I only use 4 brackets typically. And since there is no frame at 6'-1" I know there isn't a backet at that point. Also, I am looking at my plans for Long Shot and there only 4 drawn on the plans. The one marked 16'-5" inches should have been 16'-6". My boat design software works in decimal feet and I just messed up when I drew the plans. Frame 16' 6" is one software and 16.5 feet in the other. Working in both measurements it's easy to get confussed. As for which side of the brackets it doesn't matter. I set up the spacing so that they all go on the same side just to keep the confussion down. I use the small holes to set up the strongback. You can shine a laser down them, stretch a string, but I just eyeball down them as a double check when I done. If you can not see through all of them, they are not lined up properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think the easiest way to locate the brackets, which in practice is locating the frames (and to an extent I am repeating what others said in a different way) is as follows: Draw lines on your strong back at the measurements given in the plans. Put a "B" on one side of the line, and an "F" on the other side. Do this the same for all lines. One letter is always on the left, and the other is always on the right. B stands for bracket location and F for frame location. The important thing is the relative position, that is, relative to each other. So as long as your reference is consistant then it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryg Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hi Steve, Thanks very much for the detailed explanation. It makes perfect sense to me. I like the idea of using the hole with a string for alignment and how it handles both the vertical and horizontal in one operation. Much appreciated. Hi Jeff, Thanks for clearing up my confusion. I'm glad I asked before I proceeded. There really was a 6'1" bracket included with my plans. When I have a chance I will post a picture and maybe you can figure out where it came from. I'm not sure if I cut it out of page 2 or page 3 of the plans. I like the idea of using a laser, though I may have to rummage around in my junk piles to find one. Hi Dave, Thanks for your reply. What you said makes good sense to make sure all the brackets are in their correct relative position. Good stuff. Today I will hopefully get everything lined up and start mounting the frames. Very exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thanks for clearing up my confusion. I'm glad I asked before I proceeded. There really was a 6'1" bracket included with my plans. That is very odd. How long have you had the plans? If you bought them in the last couple of months or so we need to look at this pretty close and make sure you didn't get a sheet from another set of plans or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryg Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 That is very odd. How long have you had the plans? If you bought them in the last couple of months or so we need to look at this pretty close and make sure you didn't get a sheet from another set of plans or something like that. Hi Jeff, I bought the plans over a year ago. I was actually planning to build the boat last winter, but things didn't work out. The plans contained 3 pages, and on the third, a couple of items were crossed out as being obsolete. Here is a pic of the bracket plan at 6" 1'. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 OK, that would explain why I don't see one. I have made a few teaks since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryg Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hi everyone, I've been thinking more about this topic and realize that something still doesn't make sense to me. In my original copy of the assembly manual, Jeff is quite clear about measuring from the outside to the outside of the brackets at the bow and stern. While I'm not 100% sure, I think this means that the frames are to be attached to the outside of the brackets, in other words, with the bracket side facing inward on the boat. Perhaps a diagram would help. You are looking at the strongback from the side. The problem, as I see it, is that if you mount either frame on the Inside then it becomes very difficult to attach the bow or stern since you would have to do it through the bracket, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Am I looking at this the wrong way or the right way? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 You can mount then on either side on the brackets. The dimensions are laid out so that all frames are on the right or the left side of the bracket. If you want to change one, such as one on the end then you will have to adjust the spacing of the brackets to compensate for that. There are always joints at the keel you can not lash while on the strong back so you have to do them once the boat is off the strongback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 There are always joints at the keel you can not lash while on the strong back so you have to do them once the boat is off the strongback. I don't think he is concerned about lashings, but that either the bow or stern piece can not be attached to it's frame then attached to the bracket and be located properly unless both bow and stern assemblies attach to the "outside" (towards their respective end) of their bracket. Therefore either the bow or stern bracked has to be oposite all the rest. I found that the answer is that they do not need to be oposite Jerry. The way the joined bow or stern pieces fit to each other, and that so much of the bracket is trimmed off to allow the stringers to fit that the bracket is not in the way. of the bow or stern assembly that is on the "wrong" side of the bracket. The bow or stern piece fits inside the slot of the bracket, and there fore the bracket is not in the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryg Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks Dave, Much appreciated. Makes sense and I will do it that way. My concern is that by using the slot in the bracket it would be more difficult to get everything trued up, but if that is the way others are doing it then I will as well. So good to have boat building friends on the Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Glad my explanation made sense My concern is that by using the slot in the bracket it would be more difficult to get everything trued up, but if that is the way others are doing it then I will as well. Why? If your brackets are trued up it will only help. If your brackets are not trued up well, then you are in trouble already. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gzwilling Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Jeff, I purchased a set of plans for the Curlew, they were printed on 10/29/11 and they were drawn on 12/6/10. I also have a copy of your book copywrited 2011. When getting ready to set up my strongback, I noted that the first station from the plans is to be spaced at 2"8' and the last is to be at 11"6'. The problem that I precieve is that there is nothing to which to attach the bow and stern frames (which are to be located at 1"0" and 13"0"). The book has stations to be located so that the bow and stern frames can be attached at those locations. My question is: What to do about this? It seems to me that the bow and stern frames need to be attached to supports. I have made stations according to the book for this purpose. Do you see any problems using them? Thanks, George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I used 4 mounted stations according to the book. Worked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 George, use the information in the Assy Manual on the CD that came with the plans. The full size plans are not the same as the one in the book so you shouldn't use that spacing information. The full sized plans are an improved design. It removes that frame that hits most people in the calf muscle. My designs have evolved and changed and the manual that came with the plans matches your plans. Come to think of, the brackets that were drawn on the plans would have been marked with their postion too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gzwilling Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Jeff, I understand that the design has changed but I didn't get a CD with the plans. Perhaps you overlooked putting one in the envolope with the plans. Could you send one along to me? George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Drop me an email and I will tell you how to download it. You should have gotten one but I probably did overlook it. jeff (at) kudzucraft (dot) com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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