Jump to content


Forum problems? Contact Frank • Like our Facebook Page

Photo
- - - - -

28 foot Crusier


  • Please log in to reply
169 replies to this topic

  #81 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 13 May 2012 - 06:42 AM

Howard I found on line that soft wood has a r value of 1.25 per inch. I wish that was enough in its self, it would save me a lot of time. I will probably not do any foam insulating bellow the water line. I got tied up last night and couldnt get any pictures posted. I'll try tonight, she sure looks a lot better after that first sanding.

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #82 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:04 AM

A few pics

Attached Files


ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #83 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:03 PM

Looks like nothing but sanding and fairing for us this weekend. Par you made a comment on how much epoxy it was going to take to fill all those gaps, you probably weren't to far off. It took almost 4 gallons to getter done.( Larry the cable guy slang) So far the build has took about 9 gallons of goo to scarf all the strips, build a 28 foot keel batten, fill the gaps and build the stem. Graham gave me an estimate of how much epoxy it was going to take to wet out the 17oz bi axle. If I understood him it will take about a pound of epoxy for every pound of glass. So that's about 9 gallons for the wet out of the outside of the hull. Probably about a gallon for each of the top coats after that. Hope to cut the shear in along the deck shelf tomorrow. A couple of lessons I have picked up on this type of construction is be picky about keeping the gaps to a uniform 1/8 inch. They fill easier than the tighter ones. One eight of an inch is just about right because you can mix the goo just thick enough to be pushed in but not thin enough to run out. The other thing is the deck shelf is notched into the temporary frames, I cut the top of the frames away fearing of shrinkage of the epoxy and wood. I am glad I did. the deck shelf's are now 3/16 to a 1/4 off of the frames. If I had left them tight it may or may not have busted a seam some where.

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #84 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:11 PM

Nothing much of interest going on just sanding and fairing. I did go-head and glass the deck shelves to the hull. It was probably overkill, but so easy to do now while the hulls upside down. I had some 10 oz tape laying around so I just sanded the bottom of the shelf, put a fillet of epoxy and glassed it in. It wasn't called for in the plans, but I cant see where it will hurt anything, just help spread the the hull to the deck joint load a little further down the inside of the hull. Contacted Noahs marine this week about core-cell foam for the decks and cabin. They didn't have prices for the foam on the web site. I really like the decks and hull structure of the big cat Grahams building. But if there's much of a learning curve with it, I may still go with foaming them as Peter is doing on his cabin roof. I'm real impressed with the way he's building his boat. Going to start building the keel, skeg and shaft tube for a change of pace from all the sanding and fairing. I won't actually mount them until I get the hull glassed. Need to rob a bank to buy some more epoxy. I have done some very rough calculations and it looks like it could take up to 60 gallons total to build this boat. Sounds bad but that's only a bit over two gallons per foot. My Belhaven only took about a gallon per foot.

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #85 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:23 PM

Going to start my little Beta tomorrow. It has been six months since I ran it and I'm planning on running her twice a year for 30 minutes or so. I was wondering if I should put the transmission in gear to make sure it stays lubed up also. Just don't know if that will hurt it or not since it's not hooked up to a prop in the water. Anyone know?

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #86 hokeyhydro

hokeyhydro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 461 posts
  • LocationEast BugSplat, NC (New Bern)

Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:50 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but is Beta an outboard? If so running it without a prop is fine for a test, and slipping it in gear would smoosh all that lube around to the right places, just don't twist the throttle `cause without prop drag it would over rev. I always run through F-N-R gears when running my outboards on a hose (muffs). Oh yeah, if Beta is water cooled don't forget to hook up the muffs. One more tiny thing, running on muffs off a hose with water pressure doesn't certify that the water pumnp is working - gotta run her in a tank to do that.

  #87 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:04 AM

No it's a 20 hp diesel.

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #88 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:16 AM

The little diesel started right up and purred like a kitten. This engine is so easy to bleed the fuel system and start up. I wish the three cylinder tractor I have was as smooth as the Beta 20. I unhook the fuel line on the tractor and hook it up to the Beta, because the tractor has a water separator on it. We set the Beta next to the tractor hook her up to the battery and fuel, put a hose in a bucket for her to draw fresh water from, bleed it and start her right up. I let her run for about 30 minutes at various rpms, but mostly just above idle.

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #89 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 22 June 2012 - 02:22 AM

Graham, as incredibly busy as he is, sent me the keel prints last week. Graham I thank you for your time and patience with me and this project. I have finally got some free time to get on the boat again. I know that the gloss paint is going to forgive NOTHING so I must fair till I cant stand it any more, then do it again. So in between fairing the hull for the glassing I'll be laying up the keel in the shop so it will be ready to be glassed in after the hull glass gets laded. I will be laminating the keel from 1.5 inch yellow pine. The lead shoe wont be mounted and glassed in till the hull is turned of course. So some of the keel will be cut away for the lead and used to shape the mold for the lead pour. I got a serious amount of work to do to get this hull glassed, keel mounted, skeg build and installed along with the shaft tube and cutlass bearing in, build a new cradle to set her in that will allow us to pull her from the barn when the time comes. Then I need to get the inside glassed and I want to mount the diesel before I start laying out the interior. Hope to have it to this point before the snow starts to fly. Its so dog gone aggravating to watch that hull just set there waiting on me and my slim pocket book. If stupid money was no issue, I believe I could have this boat done in 12 to 14 more months.

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #90 Hirilonde

Hirilonde

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,950 posts
  • LocationCharlestown, RI

Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:48 AM

If stupid money was no issue, I believe I could have this boat done in 12 to 14 more months.


If it weren't for money you could pay some one to sand for you too ;)

Dave Finnegan
http://charlestownboatworks.com

1967 Pearson Renegade  "Hirilondë"

Spindrift 9N #521 -  many KudzuCraft SoF kayaks


  #91 Howard

Howard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 968 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:54 AM

Scott: I presume you will need to plane a flat spot on the hull bottom to the keel batten to land the keel on? Do you glass the hull before or after the deadwood of the keel is installed? Seems to me it should be done after so the keel deadwood is glued directly to the keel batten and then run a large fillet around it and glass over that, and certainly glass on the bottom of the keel where the lead keel will be bolted to. I would think that would give a better joint than bolting to a semi-flat glass section. And of course any bolt holes would be backfilled with thickened epoxy and then re-drilled. Have you given any thought to pouring the lead keel portion? My thinking was to glue all the keel pieces together, but not gluing between the layers where the deadwood keel and lead keel meet. I'd bolt the two halves together with the bolt holes already drilled square where they will need to be later on. Shape them while bolted together, then unbolt them to split them apart. One half for the boat and the other half to form the keel. My idea was to then screw the bottom part that will form the lead to a board. The keel shaped piece would be on the bottom of the interior portion of a box form. Pour / form whatever will be the form mix over and around it and tamp it firm. When set, put on a bottom board, then turn the form box over and pull the keel plug. Have not poured lead before so I don't know what the form mix is supposed to be. I can remember some have used straight concrete, but they had trouble getting the lead out. I have been toying with the idea of using a blend of cement with a high mix of very fine silica sand mixed in. Something like 4:1 sand:cement. Just barely enough cement to get it to hold it's shape. The sand mix will allow any moisture to dry up and once poured, if you tap it with a hammer, the form should crumble and separate from the lead pretty easy. But I'm prone to re-inventing the wheel sometimes. The form mix should be pretty well known.

Spindrift 10N #529

Princess 26 - Under Construction


  #92 Hirilonde

Hirilonde

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,950 posts
  • LocationCharlestown, RI

Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:42 AM

I have been toying with the idea of using a blend of cement with a high mix of very fine silica sand mixed in. Something like 4:1 sand:cement. Just barely enough cement to get it to hold it's shape.


If by cement you mean Portland cement then that is the ratio that masons use for mortar, it is very strong. I don't know what is best for making a mold, but if breaking off easily is key, that is not a fragile mix.

type M mortar is mixed like this:

Type M mortar is generally the strongest type pf mixed lime – cement mortar. Able to bear up to 2,500 pounds per square inch, it is used in foundation work, chimneys and any structure that has to bear a lot of weight. It is made with three parts cement, one part lime and 12 parts sand.


Read more: Masonry Mortar Mix Ratios | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/...l#ixzz1yX77nWVo


Dave Finnegan
http://charlestownboatworks.com

1967 Pearson Renegade  "Hirilondë"

Spindrift 9N #521 -  many KudzuCraft SoF kayaks


  #93 Howard

Howard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 968 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 22 June 2012 - 10:30 AM

I got that wrong. The "mix" I tried was one part tile grout mix (leftover from a tile job in my house), one part water and four parts silica sand. My ratio of sand to cement in that mix is probably way higher and may even be in the 8:1 ratio, depending on how much sand is in the grout mix. Even that sets up pretty firm, but does fracture and crumble when you whack it with a hammer or heavy block of wood. It is also pretty porous and lets the water out to dry it out...........pretty critical when working with molten lead. I'd want my mold to be dry as powder if I could get it that way. I think I've heard of some folks describe something called "green sand" or some such thing that use clumping cat litter, which is a form of clay, but I don't know if that dries out like the sand/cement mix does.

Spindrift 10N #529

Princess 26 - Under Construction


  #94 Hirilonde

Hirilonde

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,950 posts
  • LocationCharlestown, RI

Posted 22 June 2012 - 10:44 AM

That sounds more like it Howard. The problem with using grout, or at least some grouts, is that they have a latex additive in them which helps them bond to stuff. This might make removing the original harder. Though you could always coat the original in something slickery before casting the mold. If you are experimenting rather than finding a tried and true material I would test it on a miniature first. You can always reclaim the lead from your test.

Dave Finnegan
http://charlestownboatworks.com

1967 Pearson Renegade  "Hirilondë"

Spindrift 9N #521 -  many KudzuCraft SoF kayaks


  #95 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:25 PM

There will somewhat of a flat plane. If I plane a area 8 feet long flat and straight it would plane the whole keel batten away in the center. So as per the instructions from Graham I will glass the hull then fit the keel. I will be building a flat on top of the glass for the keel to set flat on. It will then be seriously glassed in. The lead will have the keel bolts casted in. The lead will get glassed to the wood part of the keel along with the long bolts up through the keel batten. The holes for the keel bolts will probably be drilled over size and back filled with thin epoxy once the the lead is secured and in its permanent position. I will not know the shape or size of the lead until we get quite a bit farther down the road. As Graham put it, we must know the layout of the interior and other things to make sure she will set on her lines properly.

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #96 Howard

Howard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 968 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:00 AM

I seem to recall Graham saying that the holes for the lead keel should be drilled after the casting is poured. The reason being how difficult it is to align the poured in place keel bolts with the matching boat keel. Seems like it should be easy enough, but apparently enough can go wrong that it is better to drill them after the fact. The balance issue to get her to set on her lines is a complicated process. I have seen a spreadsheet he uses to work on this. All the gear and equipment on the boat has to be accounted for, assumptions made as to engines, fuel capacity, water capacity (and location of all that). There may be 20 or 30 items on that list and a weight assumption and location made for all of them. Get all that right and it works out fine. Mess up, and it changes things and almost always for the worse. Was glancing over a sailing magazine yesterday and noted an article where the a couple had purchased a boat about this size for cruising and had proceeded to modify the interior by adding a lot of new furniture, and as the husband said, "proceeded to fill every nook and cranny with their essential gear". You often see that where someone replaces an engine or adds large banks of batteries or increases the tankage (or moves tankage). All this ignoring the fact that the original designer had a weight plan for the boat and all the changes they were making were likely making detrimental changes to the boat's performance. When you think about it, that long list of design assumptions is probably one of the most important specs you could have for a boat and one you never see.

Spindrift 10N #529

Princess 26 - Under Construction


  #97 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 25 June 2012 - 04:59 PM

Balance is important but that's Grahams to deal with, I'm just the builder. I'll never forget dumping my Belhaven in our ten acre lake for the first time and seeing her set perfectly on her lines. I'm sure (if ) I do as I'm instructed this 28 will also. As for the lead pour I'm not sure how I will go about making the mold. I do know that it was the biggest anxiety issue with the building of my Belhaven, and ended up being one of the simplest things I did. I had worked with molten aluminum most of my life and was quite aware of molten metal hazards. As for drilling lead let me give some advice that those that haven't done it before, may disagree with. FIRST drill VERY slow at a VERY low rpm. Use kerosene as the lube and coolant very liberally. If you do not follow these two rules you will end up with a drill bit firmly welded to your lead. That's all I have to say about drilling lead.

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28


  #98 Norman Colter

Norman Colter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 236 posts
  • LocationIpswich Massachusetts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 05:52 PM

When I poured the keel for my Princess I put half inch wooden dowels in the mold where the keel bolts were going. It made it much easier to drill through. Then when it was in position I drilled through those holes in the lead into the keelson. I agree slow is the way to go. I used WD40 as my coolant.
Norm
P22 #7
"Elizabeth Ann"
M18 #2
under construction

  #99 Charlie Jones

Charlie Jones

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,282 posts
  • LocationMagnolia Beach Texas, on Matagorda Bay

Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:55 PM

My mold for the Princess 22 was wooden.I shaped it inside with wedges, and poured it full of hot lead, then planed the upper surface flat. Times three on drilling slowly.
first row, third coast

  #100 Scott Dunsworth

Scott Dunsworth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,005 posts
  • LocationSOUTHWESTERN INDIANA

Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:27 PM

Haven't got to work on the boat for a month now. To hot and life keeps getting in the way. But have started fairing and sanding again this week. Going to hit it pretty hard all week and try to be ready to glass next week. Have a good friend that donated 10 gallons of fresh Raka epoxy to the project. Very generous to say the least, and very much appreciated. My goal was to have her glassed, the keel on and turned over by the end of July. That's not going to happen but is very possible for August. I feel that I must have her turned, glassed inside and out and a few bulkheads in before winter gets here. Anyway that's an update of where I'm at on this project. Most folks on this forum are interested in the smaller boats, understandably. But I'll try to make a progress update once a month for a few of you that are interested in the little larger vessels. So when she is glassed and the keel is going on I'll post some more pictures. I'm going to try to use the storage space on the forum a little more carefully. Especially considering the issues and pains that Frank has had to go through, trying to keep this thing up and running for us. THANKS FRANK!! Scott

ROMANS 8:1, BELHAVEN 19, SPINDRIFT 12S, 10N, PENOBSCOT 14,
IN OVER MY HEAD CANDICE 28





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users