Jump to content

CS17 #315


cprinos

Recommended Posts

I decided to tape the transom-bottom seam before the sides so I could practice on a short section. My first taped seams on the kayak I built many moons ago were none too pretty, so I figured I'd start small.

First I cut up some paddles in assorted radiuses for the fillets

CS17_315_20111004_13_18_53.JPG

No pictures of the fillet and tape process as I was up to my elbows in epoxy, but here's how the looked when done:

CS17_315_20111004_15_15_21.JPG

CS17_315_20111004_15_15_47.JPG

CS17_315_20111004_15_16_01.JPG

I could have probably got the tapes a little bit straighter along their edges, but I was more focused on a complete wet through and saturation. On my kayak I had lots of air bubble first time around (and second and third), but on the CS I managed to get a nice wet-out of the glass and I don't think there's any bubbles.

That's it for now, hopefully I'll get some more updates in this week. I'll tackle the side seams next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

After taping the transom-bottom seam, I went ahead and did the long side seams. I did one each day, took be 1 1/2 or 2 hours for each seam, again taking my time to make sure I didn't have any bubbles and the tape was wet out. I'm still not very good at getting the epoxy fillet looking nice and straight (it deforms a bit when I'm wetting out the tape), but these are night and day better then my kayak fillet & tape joints (I've got pictures of those somewhere, they are pretty ugly).

This is a closeup of the starboard seam....

CS17_315_20111016_11_35_31.JPG

Not easy to see here, but there is a bit of a drip edge below the tape. I brushed it out several times as the epoxy was setting, but it still flowed a bit afterwards. I decided not to worry about it, as this will be completely concealed by the seats anyway.

In front of the forward bulkhead, the side and panels meet at an ever-decreasing angle, to the point where there's not really a fillet. My filleting here was a bit more ragged, but still got a good wet out. For this section, there are some parts where the tape lies right on top of the stitching wire. Later when I pulled the wire, it left a small air pocket behind the tape. I decided that I would not remove any more wires unless they were completely embedded in a fillet -- I'll just trim them against the hull. Pulling the wires has been a pain--I am heating them with a soldering iron and then pulling. I'm not sure it's worth it... I left the wires in on my kayak have not had any of them show after 14 years or so.

CS17_315_20111016_11_35_56.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the side seams were taped and the epoxy was set, I moved to the keel batten. Plans give you a choice of bevelling the batten to match the bottom profile, or just keeping it rectangular and setting it in a thick bed of epoxy mud. I kind of went for the in-between approach. I roughly bevelled the keel batten over it's length, but I didn't try to get it exact, I figured I would make a moderate bed of epoxy to make up the difference, but it would still be less that required if the batten was left flat.

I wet out the center seam with unthickened epoxy first.... it's kind of a reach (I'm short) to get to the center seam, so I taped a brush to the end of a paint mixing stick for a few extra inches.

Filling the center seam with an epoxy bed took a lot of epoxy and a lot of filler. Actually I ran out of wood flour about 3/4 of the way through. I made a quick trip to the basement and used the "cake" from the inside of my dust collection filter bag, and that actually yielded some pretty good filler, but it was a messy process getting it out and contained.

Here's the keel batten shortly after placement, and again with the aft bulkhead put in place over the top of it (I think some people mentioned running the keel batten only to the aft bulkhead and then using a separate piece to the transom, but I figured I'd do it as one solid piece).

CS17_315_20111016_11_34_33.JPG

CS17_315_20111016_11_35_00.JPG

I think the keel batten is the last of the really big/long single-session glue ups I'll need to do for the while. The framing and seating should be able to be done in smaller steps if I want. I would have gone ahead and started filleting the bulkheads, but I used all my cell-o-fill as well (I mix that with the wood flour to make it easier to smooth the fillets), so I'll have some more coming in for next weekend. I have a bunch of coloidal silica still, but I've decided not to use that anymore in lieu of the cell-o-fill -- the latter adds more volume and doesn't spew into the air like the silica (which I'm not thrilled about given the health hazards of silica and the fact that my garage is connected to my house).

Here's where the project is at so far. Filleting out the bulkheads and framing work is next I think.

CS17_315_20111016_11_38_44.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Five months with no update, and truth be told, not much progress to report. A new job and an unheated working space conspired to keep me from the boat over the winter, but with warmer days approaching I'm looking forward to finishing up the bulkheads and start to work on some of the interior framing. Looks like the plans say I could flip the hull at this point to tape the outside chines, but I've decide to build out the interior first which looks like many others have done.

I may have the opportunity to see a finished cs17 from another forum member in the next week or thereabouts, so I'm figuring that will help provide a bit of motivation as well.

Question for you all-for the large forward and aft (aft-deck version) bulkheads did you just fillet the bulkheads to hull or fillet + tape?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe you have picked up on this. If you have enough time available you might try letting the fillet set a little before applying the tape. That way you are not deforming the fillet as you apply the tape. You want the fillet to be dentable with your fingernail, but not deforming with the pressure you are using to apply the tape. Also one of the keys to a nice fillet is to have the epoxy mixture quite thick before spreading.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Joe.

Some times if I am not in a big hurry I'll tack the piece in with a very small fillet tab in a few areas. After its cured remove the wires and fillet the piece in right over the very small ones and in a few hours wet my tape on a sheet of plastic and lay it on the seam. Of course you wet the bare wood out abit before laying the tape down. The small welds before filleting keep the pieces from flexing to much.

Scott

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joe, that's a good tip... originally I had just been going for a thicker mixture to start and relying on that to keep the fillet in shape, but that will sometimes sag anyway once as the epoxy continues to kick off. When I do the bulkheads, I'll try letting the fillets set a bit before taping to get a neater appearance -- unlike the chines parts of these will be visible in the finished boat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking great. It's funny how our paths parallell. I started on my spindrift 11N and then got sidetracked most of last summer. I'm close to finishing it now. I'm just patiently keeping occupied while I wait for an order from B & B.

I know its a bit late, but on getting the tape straight: I take a compass and scribe a line aling the upper edge of the where the tape will go. I then "paint" up to this line the epoxy, and then use this line to place the tape. I use a laminate roller to squeeze the epoxy through the tape and the excess naturally flows to the bottom, where I continue to roll it. If it needs a bit more I use the paint brush to touch on a bit more. this is the way I get a nice coating wihtout excess.

Take Care,

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

A long time between updates, it's been difficult to find time lately to work on the boat, but summer (and warm epoxy friendly weather) is slipping away, so I need to kick things into gear a bit. The forward bulkhead and the forward centerline are taped, and I made a few smaller pieces such as the bulkhead reinforcements, forward mast step and seat bulkheads. Expecting to get into seat and deck framing soon.

A few sessions have been a little more rushed and sloppy in places as I sneak boat time in here and there, but I told myself I'd keep posting pictures even if it's for humility's sake, so I'll get some more up later tonight. I knew finding time to work on the boat would be an issue for me at different times, it's one of the reasons I'm glad I picked the CS17 -- no matter how slow I'm progressing, the remaining work is not overwhelming to contemplate. I had thought about many different, more ambitious builds & building methods but it would have been tough to see the light at the end of the tunnel on many them.

On the plus side, when out cycling w/ the family I have been scouting potential cruising an launching grounds for when the boat is done. Marblehead had some good spots and Colt State Park in RI had a nice quiet ramp w/ access to the upper narragansett bay. I also spent a week on Prince Edward Island , and though it may be a while before I drive back up there, there are just oodles of empty, shallow sandy beaches just waiting to be cruised, plenty of wind, and water temps were 68-70 which was a bit of a surprise.

I saw on some other threads that a few people have opted for two layers of 12 oz biaxial on the forward bottom panels in lieu of the wooden stiffening battens. I thought about going that route but now after feeling the 12 oz biaxial cloth, it seems like it is going to take an awful lot of epoxy to wet it out. Much thicker than other cloths I have worked with. Haven't done this yet, so still weighing the options on that one. Maybe I will just glass the forward compartment area and then use stiffeners for the portion aft of the forward bulkhead.

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My two cents... The hull battens aren't bad, but to be honest, I've considered grinding them away and putting down 12 oz. cloth. I probably won't, but the reason they annoy me is that they tend to gather debris which is hard to reach when cleaning. I was going to seal up the forward area and install hatches, but it's just too convenient to have the space open for sliding in a cooler or whatever. I'll probably just get a long handled scrub brush and live with it, but if I were starting the build over, I would eliminate the hull battens and use 12 oz. biaxial cloth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 ounce cloth is much weaker then 12 ounce biax Wes. I used 12 ounce biax and though it does require a little more resin to wet out, it's not really that much more then 12 ounce cloth. The weave is coarser, which is understandable, but this isn't filled with resin so much as fairing compound. I did the whole 1/4" planking section in the front of the boat this way, bringing the biax up well past the chine seam. 2 layers of 12 ounce biax, done this way is just as stiff as is I'd used 3/8" planking on the bottom. Not having the battens in these ares makes a real clean locker and forward foot well. I faired it off with a Q-cell, talc and silica mix on a 12" drywall knife. A couple of big swipes, some minor touch ups with a 6" knife and it was nearly perfect, before sanding. A good place for peel ply too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good catch, Par. I meant to say biax, not regular cloth. I probably won't do it since it would be a lot of work (and loud!) to grind off the battens and lay biax now in such a confined space. I just don't like how the hull battens collect dust and sand all along their edges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, I've got the bias cloth. I decide to go ahead and go for the glassed version, I was able to get the forward section done tonight. That first layer of cloth was pretty thirsty for epoxy to wet out, but when I put the second layer down it took a lot less as it soaked up excess from the first layer. I used a hard rubber roller, like an old veneer roller to lay down the glass, seemed to move the cloth around less then trying to squeegee it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

some pics...

Since I wasn't sure I was glassing the forward hull panels, I started by taping seams, starting with the centerline/bow. I'm only about 5'7", so reaching down there was tough, a stool helped. I used multiple pieces of tape where the bulkhead and side batten intersect rather than trying to smooth around the batten.

Photo%2520Aug%252019%252C%252010%252025%252030%2520PM.jpgPhoto%2520Aug%252019%252C%252010%252025%252038%2520PM.jpg

I made it so far without any bubbles in the tapes, and then I noticed this the next day, looks like it was in the second tape layer only. I swear it wasn't there when I went to bed.

Photo%2520Aug%252019%252C%252010%252025%252049%2520PM.jpg

Later I dry-fit the mast step assembly

Photo%2520Aug%252019%252C%252010%252026%252051%2520PM.jpgPhoto%2520Aug%252019%252C%252010%252027%252008%2520PM.jpg

Here is a rough cut of the biax cloth, shaping it to fit the bow. I did a final trim in place

Photo%2520Aug%252019%252C%252010%252027%252026%2520PM.jpgPhoto%2520Aug%252020%252C%25206%252031%252004%2520PM.jpg

Midway through wet-out of the first layer at the bow, and dry fitting the section in the cockpit.

Photo%2520Aug%252020%252C%25209%252013%252000%2520PM.jpgPhoto%2520Jul%252022%252C%252011%252025%252040%2520AM.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

More updates....

Above I showed the glass being dry-fit to the portion behind the forward bulkhead. No pictures of wetting that out, but that part is done as well. I thought I would save some time and put down both layers of bias and then wet it out, but that turned out to be much more time consuming than just wetting out one layer first, then doing the second layer. Note for the future--one layer at a time.

With that done, I turned to the seat bulkheads. I layer them out per plans and cut notches for the stringers, then wired them in place in preparation for taping. Once that was set I mixed up some epoxy and did the fillets and tape.

CS17_315_%252020120902%252019_44_30.JPGCS17_315_%252020120902%252022_53_32.JPG

Both seat bulkheads in place.

CS17_315_%252020120902%252022_53_59.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While the seat bulkheads were drying, I started making the deck beams, one for the forward bulkhead and one that goes about 20inches behind the forward bulkhead which will support the aft end of the forward deck.

I started by taking a board and scribing to the bulkhead.

IMG_0475%252020120826%252022_20_02.JPG

I trimmed and then epoxied into place.

IMG_0485%252020120828%252022_31_18.JPG

After doing this I looked at the plans and realized I made a mistake--plans call for this beam to have a constant width at the curve, and I made mine straight on the bottom instead. Not too big a deal, just a bit extra weight, but for the next deck beam I decided to try a different approach.

I though it might be fun to try my hand at laminating the curved beam, so I cut four 3/4 inch pieces that were 1 1/2 inches high when stacked together. Then I made a bending jig on a piece of plastic-covered plywood with some wood blocks to position the bend.

CS17_315_%252020120902%252021_13_56.JPGCS17_315_%252020120902%252021_46_41.JPGCS17_315_%252020120902%252021_47_27.JPG

When laying out the points for the beam curve, I added a little bit extra curve than called for in the plans to allow for spring back when the beam is taken off the bending jig. Gougeon Bros. book on boatbuilding says to allow for spring back according to the following formula:

Spring back = deflection / ( number of lamination layers)^2

So in my case I allowed for 3" / 4^2 or 3/16 "

Next day when I removed the clamps, I measured the spring back:

CS17_315_%252020120903%252022_22_08.JPG

Final spring back was less than predicted, just 1/8"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Next up, I started working on some of the deck and foward hatch framing. I was able to start work on this in my basement shop.

CS17_315_%252020120903%252013_09_42.JPG

Cross bars were beveled 10 degrees and rabbets were layed out for the frame.

CS17_315_%252020120903%252013_10_25.JPG

Similar rabbets were let into the bulkhead.

CS17_315_%252020120903%252020_41_31.JPG

And then the dry assembled unit was fit into the forward hull, including notching the inwale.

CS17_315_%252020120903%252022_15_04.JPGCS17_315_%252020120903%252022_19_48.JPG

At the moment this is all dry fit ( plus some screws). I'll wait until I have a couple of other items to glue up so that I don't waste a small epoxy batch.

I should be able to start on the seating soon. This past week I got the final installment of plywood for seats and decking, plus some additional epoxy ( total so far has been 7.5 gallons ordered, and I've used close to 3 gallons to date)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.