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CS17 #315


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  #1 cprinos

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 05:37 PM

Hello all,

I'm a long-time lurker here, looking to change that by starting a new build thread for CS17 hull # 315. I've done a CLC Mill Creek kayak in the past, and have been wanting to do a sailboat for a long time. I can't promise a quick build, but I'll try to post updates and questions here along the way. Lots of great info is already on the forums here that has given me the confidence to go forward with building a Core Sound. Hopefully I'll be able to add something new for other builders as well.

Epoxy and glass is here, plywood delivery is Saturday, a little bit more clearing of the garage bay shop and I should be ready to start.


Chris

  #2 John Burritt

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:28 AM

Welcome to the forum. Hopefully you will enjoy your build. Folks here can provide building tips and answers to just about any question you might have. Have fun & keep us posted (hopefully w/ pics).

  #3 Joe Kaney

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:04 AM

You'll find these forums are an excellent source for information. I'm currently building CS17 #304 and many, many times during the build so far (and the research I did before starting) I just used the search engine imbedded in these forums to find out what I needed to know. If anything comes up along the way chances are somebody has been there before you, and either discussed it here or asked for and received advice here. In fact this is my first post, as I've found everything I needed just by checking the forums and haven't had to come begging for help yet. *knocks on marine plywood

BTW right now my hull is 3D and the major inside seams are filleted and taped up. Hopefully I find the right piece of lumber this week for my keel batten. My arms will get certainly get a work out this weekend as I'm going to go straight from kayaking the N Umpqua river here in Oregon to hand planing/ shaping my keel batten.

  #4 cprinos

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 04:19 PM

Thanks for the welcomes John & Joe

...In fact this is my first post, as I've found everything I needed just by checking the forums and haven't had to come begging for help yet. *knocks on marine plywood...



Nice, glad I was able to coax a stealth build out into the open. Let's see some pics when you get that keel batten in (or before).

  #5 cprinos

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:59 AM

I've done some rough cutting and scarf planing (more on that later), but have run into a question now that I started to look at some gluing operations...



I ordered some epoxy from B&B... just starting some glue operations so I opened it up. I have 3 pumps, one labeled 'A' for resin, two labeled 'B' for hardener ( I got both slow and fast hardener, so there's a pump for each).

One B pump has a plastic collar that limits the pump travel. The A pump and one of the B pumps have no collar. Something doesn't seem right here, but I wanted to check.

The B pump that has no collar looks like it was meant for the Fast hardener because it has a shorter "extension straw" and the Fast container is smaller (and shorter) than the Slow.

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  #6 Alan Stewart

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 11:52 AM

Perhaps a collar was supposed to be on both of the B pumps. In any case, you probably want to do your scarfing with slow hardener especially if you are bringing yourself up to speed on using epoxy. The bottom line is keep the ratio at 2:1 so if you use the hardener pump WITH the collar you pump one of A and one of B. If your NOT using the collar then you must pump TWO of A and one of B to keep it 2:1.

I would keep the collar on the longer B pump and go for it. One pump of A and one pump of B with the collar. Paint some thin epoxy on the scarf joints first to let it soak into the wood then butter them up with cabosil thickened epoxy (mayonnaise or chocolate pudding consistency).

CS 17 'Southbound'

CS 20 'Dawn Patrol'

 


  #7 John Turpin

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:22 PM

I use pumps for convenience, but not to measure. I've just had too many pumps sputter on me and mess up measures.
Guthrie, OK
Two-Paw 8, "Maid of Pligh"

  #8 cprinos

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 01:49 PM

Thanks guys. I've worked with epoxy before to build a kayak, but the pumps for that system were a bit different (it was MAS). John - I know what you are saying about relying on the pumps, I've had pretty good luck but it is frustrating when they start sputtering

  #9 cprinos

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 02:02 PM

ok, well to take a step back, I made a few baby steps in the past week or two. First came the plywood. From reading here and on other forums it sounds like a lot of people have trouble finding local suppliers for Okoume, so I will count myself lucky that Boulter plywood is close by. I got 6 sheets 6mm and 3 sheets 9mm of the good stuff
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The guy who delivered it was a nice guy and a retired lobsterman and told me a story of how the "Perfect Storm" of '91 had deposited his boat inland into a supermarket parking lot.

Some of you may have noticed I'm 3 sheets short on the 6mm ply. I did that on purpose....what I got is enough for the major hull panels, transom and bulkhead. I am thinking about possibly making some changes by the time I get to seats and decking, but in any case that is going to be a ways off for me, so this was a chance to spread out some cost.

My local lumberyard had some nice clear douglas fir in lengths up to 16', so I got some of that for framing .

  #10 cprinos

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 02:12 PM

I started rough cutting panels with a circular saw and jury rigged a shop vac to my saw to help control dust in the garage. I started out by laying panels on some sacrifical 2x4's to make the cut. I plan to make final cuts after lofting the fully-joined panels with a jig saw and plane to the line.
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Getting the CS17 Kit would save some time, but I was able to get raw ply cheap enough that savings over the kit price will pay for sails, for example, so I figured that was worth it. The plans show a simple method for butt-joining the panels. The engineer in me knows this is good enough, but I figured I'd do the scarfs anyway for my own satisfaction. My kayak has scarfed panels, but I got that as a kit and everything was pre-cut, so that's cheating :).

I had to do some extra thinking about panel layouts, as they assume butt-joins, however I don't think it will change too much in the end.
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One thing I did not notice right away is that the Boulter ply panels are 2" longer than 8 foot, which threw off a couple of my rough calculations for the panel lengths.

  #11 cprinos

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 02:27 PM

After rough cutting the bottom and side panels, I started with the scarfs, stacking them one on top of the other in stair step fashion. 2" steps for the 6mm, 3" for the 9mm. I looked into all kinds of
jigs and attachments for routers, circ saws, and power planers, but in the end I just went at it with a 5-1/2C Jack plane and a low angle block to finish it off.
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  #12 cprinos

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 02:32 PM

It took a few hours to hand plane the scarfs. In the future I think I would consider using the same setup but using a power planer to hog out the bulk of the stair steps first and finish by hand. Along with these scarfs, I made a 3' x 16' ladderframe platform to continue as a big work bench. A full set of casters allows me to move it around in the garage. I have a bigger garage now than I did when I built my kayak, but 14 years and 2 kids later I have a lot more 'stuff' filling said garage, so space is at a premium. At the moment I don't have room for a full 3D CS17 hull, so my cleanup and rearranging work in the garge is not done.
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Next step is to start gluing up the scarfs (that's when I noticed the issue with my epoxy pumps, see above).

  #13 Steve W

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 09:28 AM

Great fun to watch someone elses work. I'm buiding a Spindrift 11N with my kids, but unfortunately I got a late start this spring and its only at the 3D stage. Once November rolls around I plan on getting serious for a spring launch. I'll be looking to this log for inspiration.

I will add that I was going with scarfs, but caved to the ease of a butt joint.

Take Care,
Steve

  #14 cprinos

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:12 PM

I hope that any of you in the path of Irene today are now safe & dry. We got wind and enough rain to flood the basement, but nothing threatening.

Ok, time for some more updates. The matter with the pumps turned out to be one of the "B" pumps missing a restraining collar, so Carla was kind enough to send me one of the little buggers and I was good to go (actually that didn't hold me up as I didn't need the Fast right away).

I set up a little epoxy station with all the goodies. Resin & two flavors of hardener on top, cups, brushes and mixins in the middle and a container underneath with the extra resin. I stuck a thermometer right in back of the pumps as well. I got the resin & fiberglass from B&B, they had great prices. Some of the other stuff I didn't have already I got from Chesapeake Light Craft. One of those items was something called "cell-o-fill" which is a replacement for colloidal silica that is supposed to be safer for your lungs (I wear a respirator around all this stuff anyway) and can thicken with half the volume. I stuck with the silica for my initial scarfs, but then started using cell-o-fill to glue up some battens and it seems like pretty good stuff. It definately requires less to thicken epoxy than cabosil, but not quite half as much, maybe 2/3.
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With panel scarfs done, I laid them out for gluing. The scarfs got a coating of straight epoxy to saturate the grain, then I thickened up some with cabosil and coated one side of the scarf. The panels were then positioned with barrier plastic and a "brick wall" clamp.
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I was worried about alignment, so I didn't try doing multiple panels stacked one on top of another all at once. As a result, I had to spread the scarf glue ups out over the course of a week. The "Slow" hardener is pretty slow, with local temps in 70-80 range in my garage it was taking 18-24 hours for a solid cure.

  #15 cprinos

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:20 PM

While the scarfs were in process, I ripped some of the clear douglas fir to make a batten for lofting. I made one about 23' long (required a couple of scarfs in this as well) and then used the factory edges of my panels to make sure the glued up batten was as straight as possible.
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It's kind of goofy that I had to shorten the fir and then rescarf for the longer piece, but my major woodworking equipment is in my basement workshop, which is big but only has bulkhead access, so I ripped down there and did glue up in the garage. I was able to use the workshop to start on bulkheads however. For those, I lofted those with the help of a smaller thin batten and soon had the aft bulkhead and forward bulkhead complete. Cuts were made with a jig saw close to the line and then trimed with a block plane.
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Last up was the temporary center frame. Time for a bulkhead family portrait:
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Missing is the transom. I have some alternate plans for that. Stay tuned

  #16 cprinos

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:23 PM

Back in the garage, with my long batten all done and rough hull panels waiting for lofting, I laid out the grid points and started connecting the dots.
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  #17 cprinos

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:32 PM

Now is a good time to fess up to one thing I goofed up on my way to full panels. Here's an excerpt from the bottom panel layout showing the fore and aft ends:
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Note that in the diagram the circled dotted line on the right indicates a boundary between the forward 6mm panel and the middle 9mm panel. The circled dotted line on the left indicates the aft bulkhead position. I thought it also showed the panel boundary between the aft and middle portions of the 9mm bottom. WELL IT DOESN'T. What I did is make my aft cutout just 23 1/8, so I ended up with a piece too short. I fixed it by adding another piece (and costing me another scarf) at the end. The bad news is the 9mm stuff is the most expensive to make a mistake in, but the good news is that there is plenty of left over 9mm ply, so I didn't have to get another sheet.


Another change I made, since I only got 6 sheets of 6mm to start, was to alter the cutout layout a bit and I got two "side aft" pieces on a sheet that only showed one. In the pic below, the gold piece is the one I added:
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This was a close cut, there is not a ton of room from the "bottom forward piece". In the picture below you can see the side aft piece and how much room I had from the bottom forward cutout. I had about an inch to spare. There should have been a couple of more inches but I rough cut the bottom forward first and got lucky I left myself enough room for the side aft
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  #18 cprinos

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:36 PM

After lofting the cutout lines on the full panel, I went at it with jigsaw and block plane, just like the bulkheads.

Yay! side panels! (The bow is uncut, that doesn't get done until after the butterfly is joined so the bow can be faired in one piece with the bottom panels)
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Bottom panels are next on the hit parade, and then I really, really need to clear space in my garage because I still don't have room for butterfly wings or a 3D hull. I'll burn that bridge when I get to it.

  #19 ecgossett

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:40 PM

Looks like the same tools colors and all that I used for lofting.

I made a couple mistakes on boundaries like that, it cost me on one piece re-cutting out on other half, and the first piece I was able to use for something else. I Made a mistake later on a bottom piece, and bought an extra expensive piece of plywood to make up for what I thought was shortage.

In the end everything worked out, and I have an entire sheet of 1/4" Okoume in my garage. Something that helped me was counting the number of 36" points, and number 1-? on both plans and boat, it made it easy to double check where I was in the lofting process, and make sure I was using the right dimension. I laid all three sheets together with ends overlapping 3" for scarfs, used small nails to keep sheets from moving. This way wound up working pretty well for the lofting.

- Edward
- Edward

http://coresound17.blogspot.com

s/v Forty-Two

St. Marys, GA


  #20 cprinos

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 08:09 PM

Numbering the 36" stations is a good idea. I did annotate the lines for the three bulkhead positions right on the plywood, that helped from getting them mixed up with the other station lines. I was so worried about messing those up I must have checked the offset points 10 times before going ahead and laying down the pencil line. So far all the measurements on the plans seem to be on the mark, I didn't have to do much fiddling with the battens to get the lines fair.




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