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Painting my Hull CS20 104


Maria CS20 104

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I have finally completed four coats of finely sanded epoxy and have started to paint the hull. What a mess. I got the proper mix I am sure, it is MoPoxY and I have used it before successfully, 2 part epoxy marine paint. This time when I went to paint it seems to cook off as I coat and thining is just thinning and a light coat is just a see through mess with pieces of my high density rollers peeling off and sticking to the boat like sandpaper. Tried to wipe as it set. Opps.....I am now trying to figure out what to do next. It's about 84 in the garage but most of the boat is cool to the touch. Do I need a lighter touch? Stick with light coats, HELP? I really want to get this done this weekend and early in the week but need your input and advice.

Thnx, Jim

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Jim, I have no experience with that brand but I would look closely at the thinner.Most of these two part paints have different thinners for different temperature ranges to help them go touch dry relatively quickly to avoid dust and bugs from spoiling the finish. You can scrape the mess off and go sailing as is while you are regaining you composure. The epoxy will keep the water out as well as any paint. Just tell them it's finished bright. Good luck PeterP

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I have finally completed four coats of finely sanded epoxy and have started to paint the hull. What a mess. I got the proper mix I am sure, it is MoPoxY and I have used it before successfully, 2 part epoxy marine paint. This time when I went to paint it seems to cook off as I coat and thining is just thinning and a light coat is just a see through mess with pieces of my high density rollers peeling off and sticking to the boat like sandpaper. Tried to wipe as it set. Opps.....I am now trying to figure out what to do next. It's about 84 in the garage but most of the boat is cool to the touch. Do I need a lighter touch? Stick with light coats, HELP? I really want to get this done this weekend and early in the week but need your input and advice.

Thnx, Jim

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Thanks Peter........but..........I tried to sand and it is not going anywhere. As for bright, I have so many filled imperfections it needs paint although it will always look homemade, of which wife Karen and I are very proud. Bumps and bruises and marks from our grandson with his plastic hammer add to the history and effort. I will work to preserve the "Merick Marks" (grandson)and add him to the builder plaque. The thinner I have is made for this paint MoPoxY, note on the can: "For Brushing 75 35", for what it is worth. I figured it would be fine to roll with small high density roller. I really think it's the heat for as fast as it sets and is difficult to blend from one set to the next and even within one roller loading. Ticks me off because I promised Karen I'd get this done and it would be a breeze. Using these rollers has been a blessing with the B&B epoxy mix. Maybe I drop the hardener some but I think that is a bad idea as the chemical mix is not something one should mess with to ensure proper curing of the paint. Sanding with 120 grit cut the sandpaper effect and gives me a little hope that I do not have to strip it down. YUCK. Just take a little more time and thinner coats I guess. Do appreciate your input and I am no perfectionist which is obvious to at least me. Keep the faith and God Bless all.

Jim

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You can always say you are a Survivalist and that's you version of the cammo look. No seriously, wait until Monday and call the paint store and see what they have to say. I'll bet they have something to help you. To give you an example -the two part I use has two recommended thinners for spraying. I was having problem with orange peel when the weather got hot.What I did not know was that you can use a brushing thinner to SPRAY in hot weather to get the paint to flow out right. Had to ask the right guy. Whatever you do I would not mess with the paint ratio. PeterP

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Don't alter the ratio of resin to hardner.

You can store the cans of liquid in a cooler with ice packs to cool the mix down before mixing it together and then keep the roller tray on an ice pack as you apply to the boat.

I never use epoxy paint as topcoat as they will chalk over time when exposed to UV.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've used George Kirby (old school oil base) paint on a wooden canoe for my nephew.

Old school is an understatement. Kirby paints are manufactured using the same recipes as 50 or more years ago. Great stuff for a traditional wooden boat. Many owners of Herreshoffs, Concordias and such use their paints. I am not so sure it is the best option over epoxy though. My next build, or even repaint on my Renegade will be System 3 LPU. Pricey compared to 1 part polyurethanes and the like, but considering what goes into these boats before paint I think it is justified.

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Hirilonde, be careful what you wish for with the WR-LPU from System Three. Yes, it's water clean up, but this is the only good thing about it. It's difficult to spray and I've yet to be successful with this type of application. It dries so quickly that it's dust 6" out of the gun. I've even tried running the compressor hose through a bucket of ice water, but no luck. Environmental control is key to this stuff too and you want humidity, at least 70%, so you can have reasonable "flow". It's not the shiniest stuff in the world either, but you can buff once it's good and dry, which bring it up to the shine level of a single part polyurethane, but no where near a solvent based LPU. It's sensitive to "Fre-Cut" papers and will come off in big huge sheets of film, if you use Fre-Cut papers. Lastly it doesn't seem to have the flexibility of other paints, at least here in a sub tropical climate, I've had shrinkage and cracking issues. In short, the current formulations of WR-LPU are much better then the first generation that showed up 15 years ago, but they haven't gotten all the bugs out of it yet and it doesn't compare well to solvent based LPU's, so considering the cost, I'll stick with the solvent based stuff until the next generation of WR-LPU's show up.

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System 3 LPU is the only paint I use in my shop.

Shop is attached to the house so solvent free is my only chocie to keep wife happy.

And as Red Green says. If your wife is happy and your not , your still jappier than if your happy and she isn't.

I offer clients the option of a System 3 finish at one price. and I can offer them a pro awlgrip finish at another price if they wish me to transport boat to pro shop for pro awlgrip finish.

Humidity is important as PAR says. Before applying I spray entire shop floor with a pump sprayer with 2 gallons of water and have an ultrasonic humidifier run in shop for a day ahead of time if it is dry.

As to flexibility issue PAR mentions with paint cracking, all dimension lumber needs to be epoxy coated prior to application. Plywood seems much better in this regard.

I not only epoxy encapsulate but also use the system 3 epoxy primer under the paint.

Only instance I have had of cracking was when I tried to paint dimension lumber bits that had been varnished and never had epoxy on them.

As for gloss on lapstrake boats I use straight system 3 paint. On non lapstrake I go over that with the high gloss clear coat.

Lapstrake boats seem to look nicer to me in a lower gloss.

I thin the paint or clear coat with a 20% cut of a 50/50 mix of distilled water and 91% ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL. The thinning along with the pre humidifcation gives me results I am happy with.

I paint the entire boat using disposable foam brushes and not HVLP sprayer.

This way a client can blend in a repair themselves with a quart or tow of product and a cheap throw away foam brush them selves and it should look just like it left the shop.

The Foam Brush leaves a bit of "Brush Texture" that is not really objectionable. It is not HVLP smooth auto finish though.

The texture also shrinks considerably and dissipates a lot over the coarse of 2 weeks. So two weeks later the texture is reduced easily by 50-70 %.

On a Coresound the pro awlgrip finish would cost a customer 2 K more than me doing it in my shop.

One of the nice things I really like about the System 3 LPU is that it dries to recoat in such a short time. Pretty much once I have gone around the hull once I can recoat in about 10 minutes. Since it dries so fast it also reduces the incidence of dust getting in paint and bugs.

The one time I applied a solvent based LPU it attracted every bug in the neighborhood that came to commit suicide in my paint job.

I will admit a pro awlgrip job is a much more aesthetically pleasing finish.

But also once you accumulate a few dock kisses the only way to really getthem out is an entirely new awlgrip job to the tune of a few thousand dollars. It is very very difficult to blend in a patch job in the resin rich awlgrip finish. You pretty much have to really paint at least a whole side of the boat.

The system 3 is extremely homeowner friendly to repair. The paint is extremely fade resistant so new application even years later blends in nicely.

My CS 20 is in front yard and has 4 year old System 3 LPU on it exposed to daily UV that has high gloss retention and no visible fade to it.

In this life nothing is perfect.

System 3 LPU has won a place in my shop due to extremly user friendly application with foam brushes with very nice results and no fumes.

Doesn't match a pro awlgrip job but looks better than many amateur awlgrip jobs I have seen.

I can see where different environmental conditions might mean it doesn't apply as nicely too.

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It would be nice if I had the time to roll and tip everything, but this is ridiculous on most projects, as they're just to big to consider hand work. As a one time deal on a little boat, maybe you can have some success, but again, considering the cost of this stuff, the difficulties with application, gloss and other assorted issues, I'll stick with solvent based paints for now.

I suspect the next generation will be better. The first generation truly sucked, so this latest (second generation) of WR-LPU's are a huge step forward. I don't have the time to fart around with paints, my time is tied up in prep, so the paint needs to go down reliably, with little fuss and I can't soak the floor to my paint booth without my exhaust fan getting pissed. I too tried the humidifier trick (two of them), but several months out of the year here, it's just imposable to apply this stuff. I have a buddy in Australia that has similar complaints about these new WR=LPU's. He's in near desert like conditions and he'd need an inch of water on the floor of his shop to make it work. I'm glad you're getting some good use out of it Ray. BTW, the next time you need a solvent job, I can do a CS for a lot less then 2K.

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BTW, the next time you need a solvent job, I can do a CS for a lot less then 2K.

Solvent quote was for a fair amount more than 2 K. But I figured offsetting my labor rate and allowing for transport down and back 2 k upcharge was fair and reasonable...

I suspect transport to Florida would kill cost savings though.

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Hirilonde, be careful what you wish for with the WR-LPU from System Three. Yes, it's water clean up, but this is the only good thing about it. It's difficult to spray and I've yet to be successful with this type of application. It dries so quickly that it's dust 6" out of the gun. I've even tried running the compressor hose through a bucket of ice water, but no luck. Environmental control is key to this stuff too and you want humidity, at least 70%, so you can have reasonable "flow". It's not the shiniest stuff in the world either, but you can buff once it's good and dry, which bring it up to the shine level of a single part polyurethane, but no where near a solvent based LPU. It's sensitive to "Fre-Cut" papers and will come off in big huge sheets of film, if you use Fre-Cut papers. Lastly it doesn't seem to have the flexibility of other paints, at least here in a sub tropical climate, I've had shrinkage and cracking issues. In short, the current formulations of WR-LPU are much better then the first generation that showed up 15 years ago, but they haven't gotten all the bugs out of it yet and it doesn't compare well to solvent based LPU's, so considering the cost, I'll stick with the solvent based stuff until the next generation of WR-LPU's show up.

Like anything new, or relatively so, there are always drawbacks. I appreciate your evaluation. But in my case I would be rolling and tipping as I have no desire to invest the time or money into a new skill like spray painting. I actually prefer a semi-gloss to a high gloss. It is more forgiving of scratches and such. I would not be painting dimensional wood. In the case of my Renegade I would be painting fiberglass, and for my next build I would just be painting epoxy coated plywood. The details of dimensional wood would be varnished. Then top this all off with my concern for my health and the impact on the environment and I think this paint meets my needs.

I realize that every decision about materials, for boats or anything else, is a matter of parameters and requirements. My main difference from most is my lack of desire for glare in the face shiny. I actually prefer a semi-gloss, not only for it's practical reasons, but it makes a great contrast to the bright work. Only by careful consideration of details like this can anyone make a proper decision for themselves.

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For brightwork you might wish to try epoxy coating and then topcoaating with the high gloss clear coat by Systems 3 WR-LPU.

I have done that on a few boats and it looks nice and is seeming to hold up better than varnish so far.

Certainly the ability to get 5-6 coats on in an afternoon without sanding and tacking is a major boon over 2 coats of varnish per day.

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For brightwork you might wish to try epoxy coating and then topcoaating with the high gloss clear coat by Systems 3 WR-LPU.

I have considered this type of product, but I am not ready yet for it. Or maybe the products aren't ready for me. When they do break down the residual material is much harder to remove to start over. And they are just clear, they ad no amber richness like real varnish does. Some day man may learn to petrify wood such that it looks rich and natural for many years, I just don't think a product that succeeds exists yet. I will continue to do my Renegade every year and when it comes time to build my retirement/semi-retirement trailer sailor I will store it under protection, hopefully in a garage.

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Just finished the fourth coat of the MoPoxy marine epoxy stuff, looks great. Went to 1/4 nap mohair rollers and the stuff flows on with few roller marks, thinned a bit and kept in a cold metal bowl. Man this stuff off-gasses the solvent fast and sets up. By enclosing the car port with plastic I kept all bugs from the landing deck with the last two coats few hairs from the roller but they will polish out. My keel is a bit higher and longer than spec and a full inch wide. I will be mounting a brass keel plate when all drys and sets for a few days. The brass is 3/16ths by 1 inch wide and runs the full 17 feet of the keel. I will have to drill out the attachment points but the brass I pre-drilled to off set from the keel screws at about every 7 inches. Plan is to drill holes for the screws, fill with oil based paint and install the screws. Once dry I'll go back and put a coat of epoxy over the screws. Any recommendations for this next step are greatly appreciated. Once done we turn her over paint the interior and build the deck. The hull is an antique white and the deck will be bright. My son wants to do the seats in red to complement the mahogany stained deck. I am afraid the red will fade but I am game. Found good mahogany for the thwart seat and a few internal trim additions. Rub rails will be bright tight grained douglas fir stained in mahogany to tie into the deck. We move forward and THANKS ALL for the input and encouragement.

Blessings to ALL

Jim

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On seat color - lighter is better. Dark paint, including red, gets mean hot in the sun and will singe the hair off ones backside, and/or blister skin. Yes, it's the ol' do not ask me how I know this.

On screw holes some folks dribble epoxy in them to seal the wood. I use shellac.

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