captain red Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Hi, I was curious if anyone has heard of or seen a junk rig on the vacationer or weekender before? Has anyone ever sailed on a ship with a junk rig before and what was your impression of it ? Thank you, Captain red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 Just my two cents here, and no I have never sailed one. But all the things that are said about junk rigs that are positive are some what distorted. Junk rigs really do not go to windward well, not even as good as a gaff rig sloop. On a list of the best over all rigs the Marconi rig with no backstay with a full roach main is the best over all sail plan, the next would be a backstayed marconi rig with a genoa, next would be a gaff rigged sloop, the next would be a balanced lug or a standing lug, the last would be a junk rig. Again this is just my two cents. Others may think or feel differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 I've sailed aboard one. As far as ease of use, I'd rate the junk rig( as modified by Hasler and others) to be one of the simplest rigs there is to use asa cruising rig. True it doesn't go to weather as well as a marconi, but if using in the open ocean, they are probably fairly close. Most smaller marconi rigged vessels won't do all that well to weather in any kind of seaway. Takes a pretty good sized vessel to make better than about 55- 60 degrees to weather in a heavy chop. INshore, or in flater waters, it won't do as well, but for cruising it does enough. Sailing very high to weather is somewhat overrated in a cruising boat anyway. I'm very interested in the rig for a boat for myself as a full time cruiser, but I'm looking at something around 30 feet. The sail itself is very easy to build as most have no shaping at all, unlike a Marconi sail, which gets a large part of it's shape from the broad seaming to achieve the proper draft. There are folks who are playing with shape in the junk sails, but the jury is still out on that.... Having said all that, there are a few real negatives on a boat such as the Weekender. First and formost, the center of effort is different, so the mast placement would need to be changed. In the Weekender, this would screw up the entire cabin structure. The forward bulkhead is designed to carry the mast loading. To move the mast, you'd have to re-engineer that bulkhead in a different location. The mast on a junk rig is also unstayed. You'd need to have the mast box built strongly enough to carry the full load of the sail without shrouds and stays. Secondly, the battens on a junk rig are all attached to the mast with parrels. In other words, each batten has a line that goes around (or past) the mast. When you lowered the sail, it would all have to be below the hinge (or tabernacle) or you'd have a big job rigging each time. Thirdly, the rig is heavy aloft. Since the Weekender has no ballast, I think you would seriously compromise the stability of the boat, unless you added ballast. Then you open a whole new can of worms in structural integrity. There is a fellow in Port Arthur, Texas who has converted a Potter 15 to a junk rig and he seems happy with it. If I get a chance to attend, I'll see and possibly sail the boat at a Messabout on the 19th. If I do, I'll let you know how it sails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor3356 Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 I agree with Charlie Jones. I have sailed Junk rigged and believe that the Weekender would not benefit from this type of rigging. Full batten sails would do better and give somewhat the same look. If you haven't sailed before I think the sail stricture that is in the plans for the Weekender are one of the best to learn on. As you get used to the handling of the Weekender I would make small changes. Junk rigged though beautiful are heavy and will take a little getting used to. I would never say don't, just work up to it. After all its you boat, you built it, and you can have as much fun changing it as you want. My 2 and 1/2 cents worth, mince tax, oh no that makes it -1/2 cents :roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain red Posted April 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 Hi, Charlie. What kind of boat are you looking at in the thirty foot range? Will this be used for distance cruising? The reason I ask is my wife and I want to do the same within the next ten years. Make the jump and go around the ball see some sights. :wink: Captain red 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain red Posted April 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 Hey, Sailor 3356. Since you are in the same region as I am . Do you know of any junk rigged boats in a reasonable driving distance from central Illinois. My wife and I would like to hitch a sail on one just to see how it is? If you do please let me know by post or private msg. Thank you, Captain red 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor3356 Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 Hay captain red, I was on "China Girl" a couple of years ago, but now shes on your side of the lake. She is some place in Green Bay. Don't know of any others. The only complant was that the boat was narrow but other then that she sailed really well. First time on a boat that was junk rigged and not a junk. A real junk, well the one I had been on was wide, more like a big box. Intresting to be on but I wouldn't want to take it on a long trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 Yes this boat will be for distance cruising, with probably some ocean passages. My wife wants to untie and go and she really doesn't want to just do coastal. Built and cruised long term aboard a 35 foot Cross trimaran some time ago, but that's too much boat for us. We're really looking for a decent multihull in the 30 foot range. 32 foot max. I doubt we'll find anything we can afford, so will probably wind up on a monohull. They are much cheaper for good boats. If we find something that has a decent hull/deck but has problems with the rig, I'd have no qualms about changing it over to a junk rig. If the rig is ok, then I'll go with that. I really have no hard wired feelings for the marconi rig. I'd sail a gaffer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor3356 Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 Always wanted to get a multi hull, maybe my wife wouldn't get sea sick for the first hour we are out. :shock: But putting it in a slip seems to be the biggest problem that I have heard of. I have talked to a few people that have them, (I need to bum a ride) But they have allot of money (and I don't) and very large slips. Going to try and get a ride this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 Hey, Charlie thats great. I have been looking at the spray designs 28 to 33 foot range. I am thinking bilge keel as well. This I am not sure of yet. There are some designs that I want to look at yet. One of the things I look at is the righting ability and also can it be made in steel. My last boat was a 38' ted brewer design steel, sweet boat. It also sounds like you and I are blessed with wives that like adventure and love to sail. That is great! Talk to you later, Captain red 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted April 10, 2003 Report Share Posted April 10, 2003 Ray- really no one thing in particular on the structural integrity. Just trying to make him (and others)aware that when you start changing boats to that extent- i.e.- rig, location of main bulkheads, center of effort, ballast, etc, you really need to be careful. YOU are then designing the boat (by the seat of your pants), not using the design you paid for from the designer. Just think it ALL through before changes are made that COULD affect stability, strength, etc. I build professionally and I'm certainly not about to change structural things on a design, unless I have a VERY good reason, a VERY good idea what will result, and usually the blessings of the designer before the change is made. Now, interior layouts, etc, is a totally different story and most designers would probably admit they would just as soon leave the interior blank, since they seldom get built like the plan shows anyway. Sam Rabl used to joke about it in his books and articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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