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  #1 Al Stead

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 10:19 AM

Hello all,

I have pulled my Weekender into my heated shop to start the spring upgrades. I would have waited, but she-who-must-be-obeyed reminded me that we will be gone for a couple weeks during prime fix up time, so I have to get going now. Last summer I left the fine finishing on my glass work and just rolled out paint over the blemishes so I could go sailing. Now I want to clean those up in preparation for a new coat of paint. These blemishes aren't very deep, but some of them might be too deep for a couple coats of primer to fill. My question is this: do I need to strip the paint down to the epoxy, and with what should I strip it?

Al Stead

weekender Jumping Duck

  #2 Frank Hagan

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 11:10 AM

Hello all,

I have pulled my Weekender into my heated shop to start the spring upgrades. I would have waited, but she-who-must-be-obeyed reminded me that we will be gone for a couple weeks during prime fix up time, so I have to get going now. Last summer I left the fine finishing on my glass work and just rolled out paint over the blemishes so I could go sailing. Now I want to clean those up in preparation for a new coat of paint. These blemishes aren't very deep, but some of them might be too deep for a couple coats of primer to fill. My question is this: do I need to strip the paint down to the epoxy, and with what should I strip it?

Al Stead

weekender Jumping Duck


I think you'll have to strip the paint to repair the blemishes (if by blemishes you mean craters!) If you just have things like runs and sags, you could grind them down flat, primer and repaint.

If its latex paint, I would suggest something like the citrus-oil based paint softeners. They are pretty easy on things like the concrete floor and incidental things like your skin (!) You'll have to make sure you get all residue off the epoxy before re-priming and re-painting, and I would do a "scratch test" with any oil based paint before putting it on the epoxy. A "scratch test" is where you paint a small patch with the primer / top coat, and then let it cure fully. Then, put cellophane tape over it, burnish it down with your thumbnail, use an x-acto knife or razor blade and score the tape in a cross-hatch pattern, and then rip the tape off. If any paint comes with it, you have an adhesion problem.

  #3 Al Stead

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 02:03 PM

Thanks Frank,

I guess I should have mentioned that I painted it with Rustoleum topside paint. I didn't use any primer with the first painting, because I have never seen an advantage to it on all my other outdoor projects that I've painted. So, if I use a product like Zip Strip, will it react with the epoxy? I'm not afraid to scratch down the epoxy if I have to, but stripping seems like it will do a better job easier.

Al Stead

  #4 Frank Hagan

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 03:05 PM

I haven't used Rustoleum's topside paint; I know their "regular" paint is oil-based. Some oil-based paints react badly with epoxy but you have already tested this paint, so you should be OK. So, other than making sure the paint remover is gone before doing a skim coat of epoxy to fill the holes, you should be OK. You may be able to do that in spots rather than the whole boat.

I have brightwork to varnish again; I looked at the new Cetol marine that Practical Sailor likes so much ... it is not as orange as it used to be ... but I would have to completely remove all the varnish before re-coating. Not sure I'm into that much work!

  #5 Al Stead

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 05:08 PM

I'm pretty happy with the Rustoleum topside paint. I don't want a perfect mirror finish on my boat, so just rolling it out and letting it flow seemed to give me the gloss I was looking for. It reflects okay without showing every little oops. When I tried sanding it down preping for the new paint, it gave me a perfectly smooth hard toothy surface that should take new paint like a charm. Last summer, my wife hit my boat with a rock that she threw with her riding lawn mower. It was a pretty solid hit, but it only took a little rubbing to make it disappear.

Right now my goal is to do a complete once over including the bright work. However, as with last year I want to get on the water as soon as possible, no later than the Lake Pepin messabout. That being the case, I likely won't get to the bright parts. Still, I am having as much fun as I had when I first built her. This seems like a perfect situation. I can sail her while the water is soft, and fiddle with her when it isn't. Either way I'm having fun.

Al

  #6 Frank Hagan

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 07:11 PM

Practical Sailor did a paint test a few years back, and included regular Rustoleum because builders told them it was working well for them. It ended up near the top of the list, competing nicely with $30 a quart paint. I don't know if there's a difference between the marine and regular paint, but if they did improve it, it has to be pretty impressive.

  #7 UnlikelyBoatBuilder

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:48 AM

I'm pretty happy with the Rustoleum topside paint. I don't want a perfect mirror finish on my boat, so just rolling it out and letting it flow seemed to give me the gloss I was looking for. It reflects okay without showing every little oops. When I tried sanding it down preping for the new paint, it gave me a perfectly smooth hard toothy surface that should take new paint like a charm. Last summer, my wife hit my boat with a rock that she threw with her riding lawn mower. It was a pretty solid hit, but it only took a little rubbing to make it disappear.

Right now my goal is to do a complete once over including the bright work. However, as with last year I want to get on the water as soon as possible, no later than the Lake Pepin messabout. That being the case, I likely won't get to the bright parts. Still, I am having as much fun as I had when I first built her. This seems like a perfect situation. I can sail her while the water is soft, and fiddle with her when it isn't. Either way I'm having fun.

Al


I also use Rustoleum, but just the 'normal' stuff, not the Marine paint. From what I can tell, this is just regular old alkyd oil paint. I used it on my Atkin-designed dinghy (over an oil primer) and it held up well on an 8 month, 2000 mile voyage, where the dinghy was towed the whole way.

That said, I can't quite figure out why you need to strip it off. Why can't you just sand it and re-paint? I'm missing that part.

-- John
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  #8 Al Stead

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 05:12 PM

Hello John,

Last year when I was fairing out the hull, I realized that with the bad lighting in my shop, I would be at it until the water got hard again if I wanted a perfectly fair hull to paint. So I said "good enough" even though it wasn't, slapped paint on her and went sailing. The imperfections that I left for later were for the most part shallow enough that I could probably just sand them smooth by simply taking down the paint to the epoxy. But some of them were a bit deeper than that. I was just wondering to the list if I could glob primer in there and sand them fair, or if I should strip it to the epoxy and put thickened goo in them.

So far, the plan is to apply primer to all but the deepest ones and fair and paint. I have already taken most of the bad ones down to a point that I think I can get away with just rollering out a couple new coats. I'm only going to paint the hull sides and topsides. The bottom is in great shape if a little bumpy. I plan to paint that copper next winter, so unless it wears down, I will mess with that later.

I have done quite a few outdoor projects in my time, and have painted all of them with rustoleum. I think it is pretty good paint. The topside rustoleum seems to have more solids in it and flows better than the regular paint. It bonded with the epoxy just fantastic. Like I said before, it sands down to a nice smooth toothy and very hard surface that should end up looking as good as anything I have done to date. And the fact that it is eleven dollars a quart doesn't hurt either.

Al

  #9 UnlikelyBoatBuilder

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 07:26 PM

Ah, so the bumps were there before you painted over them.

H'mmm.

My wife and I faced this problem when we were painting our boat. The deck had probably 6 coats of paint on them, some better than others. As a result, large chunks were peeling off.

We chipped and sanded and tried to fair off the 'craters', but eventually, we bit the bullet and sanded down to bare wood, or nearly so.

I can't seem to post a clickable link, but there are some pics on my blog, unlikelyboatbuilder.com. I'll post them if I can, later.

I think it was worth the effort, and it was probably less total work than trying to 'fair' with paint.

Helps to have a helper, though!

-- John
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  #10 Al Stead

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:39 PM

I'll try to get a pic of what I have done so far so that I can show how the paint gave way to a pretty fair surface without having to fight with the underlying epoxy. I was a little surprised that my nice smooth deck wasn't so much. When I first decided to bite the bullet and go sailing, I resolved that even if I had to take a whack at it each winter for a few years, I would be happy to do that. From what I can tell today, I don't think I will have to come back to it again until the paint starts to fail.

Al

  #11 Frank Hagan

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 10:36 PM

I can't seem to post a clickable link, but there are some pics on my blog, unlikelyboatbuilder.com. I'll post them if I can, later.


Hi John ... new members are restricted from posting links until they have three posts, so you are one post away from being promoted to "Member" status. Its our attempt to prevent "link spam" from hit and run spammers!

I like your blog!

  #12 UnlikelyBoatBuilder

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 07:43 AM

Hi John ... new members are restricted from posting links until they have three posts, so you are one post away from being promoted to "Member" status. Its our attempt to prevent "link spam" from hit and run spammers!

I like your blog!


Ah, I get it. This should do it, then :)
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  #13 Frank Hagan

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 01:00 PM

Ah, I get it. This should do it, then :)


It doesn't look like its actually updating your post count ... in the forums. It is in the Profile. Can't figure this one out, so I'll manually update you (I keep telling myself the upgrade was "only money ...")

  #14 UnlikelyBoatBuilder

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 06:25 AM

Software... tell me about it (26 years in the business, and counting.) That's why I like building boats. It keeps me from tearing my hair out.
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  #15 UnlikelyBoatBuilder

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 06:28 AM

But I don't want to hijack the thread with my problems. Here's the pics I mentioned:

Before:

Posted Image

After:

Posted Image

After a couple weeks of sailing, I added another coat on the deck with non-skid additive. Less shiny, but a heck of a lot safer. Live and learn...

-- John
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  #16 Al Stead

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 07:41 AM

Nice boat John,

Maybe someday we could see a pic of her under sail.

Al

  #17 UnlikelyBoatBuilder

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 07:16 PM

Nice boat John,

Maybe someday we could see a pic of her under sail.

Al


Yeah, I would like a picture of her under sail. Next summer I'm going to finally put her topsail up and have someone take a picture.

Broke two battens today. Grrrr.

-- John
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