heaving to in a cat ketch

[Ken_Potts]

  The same situation you describe on a sloop should work with a cat-ketch. The only real difference is the distance between the sails, so you should have more fine control over the attitude of the boat.  Please try it in light to moderate winds and let us know how it works.  I'll be sailing the first weekend in September and if I remember to I'll try it too - Unless the wind is blowing hard.  If the wind blows hard I'm going to try to keep the boat from heeling too far in the shallow water I'll be sailing.  I've not sailed much in deep water but the tactics I see discussed in this thread seem to suggest deep-water survival techniques in ballasted boats.  When I've been in big winds and in need of more stability in my CS17 I've generally either put the boat on a good, stable point of sail (broad reach), adjusted the attitiude of the boat in order to reef (depends on the rig), or competely doused the sails and fired up the motor (cause I'm a weenie when I can't hold the boat upright with lots of wind and no crew).  If I was a real man I'd row back to the dock in 30 knot winds, but it's nice to be able to furl the sails and fire up the motor (yes, this is just a joke for my buddy Ray). 

  Just head out and try stuff when the weather isn't too bad and you'll learn lots of good stuff.  Theory is fun - Practice is more fun

[wkisting]

From the description I have heard it seems that heaving to in a cat ketch is a matter of setting the mizzen hard so the boat is intentionally in the irons and when you are ready to sail you pull it out of the irons and sail on.  Am I correct in my analysis?

Joel, you're correct that that is how most of the folks seem to do it, but as I was suggesting in my earlier posts--and I think Ken is suggesting also--there may indeed be a way to "tune" the position and sails of the cat ketch so that it will heave-to in a manner more consistent with the "true" heave-to that you described for a sloop. It is simply that no one here seems to have tried to do it.

Honestly, the simple heave-to of sheeting in the mizzen and letting fly the main works so well for a quick rest or reefing that probably few or no CS owners have felt a need to try heaving-to any differently. (It is very simple to get out of irons on a ketch because you can just push the mizzen out manually and you will rotate right around to where the main can start drawing and drive you off on a good tack. Even in light winds this works well, although the boat responds slowly if the breeze is very light.) However, if you wanted to heave-to at a more "proper" or "ideal" angle like a sloop, without technically going into irons, I am fairly certain it would be possible. What I was trying to say in an earlier post is that I don't know whether the benefits (whatever they might be) would be worth the extra effort (perhaps neglible, perhaps not) of trying to trim the sails just right to find that magic hove-to position. But maybe so... we just need to experiment a bit and find out. It will be awhile before I can get my CS on the lake to try it. When I do, I'll report back, but I may have to wait awhile before I get a day with high enough winds to really see if, for example, it makes a signicant difference to the calmness of the boat's movements in one position versus another, etc.

[Joel B]

I understand the lack of time.  Summer officially ended for me today.  I taught my first classes of the semester.  This would be a great place to work if it wasn't for all the students.  I am close to having enough money to buy my wood and epoxy. We had a few unplanned for events that pushed back my start date.  so I bought a little sloop in the mean time to learn the basics of sailing. I hope I can get out a few times before the season ends. I am hoping to get started on my CS 20 this winter.

[wkisting]

On the lake today, I had winds about 7 - 10 mph so I experimented a bit with the heave-to technique. It does seem possible to "set" the main sail so that it draws just enough to make the boat want to fall off the wind, while also setting the tiller hard over to one side so that (as the boat drifts backwards) it forces the bow back up into the wind. I was able to accomplish this only once, after a lot of fiddling around, and it seemed to hold the boat at a gently varying 25 - 40 degrees off the wind, while slowing my drift straight downwind to about 0.78 knots. However, I did not manage to maintain this for very long--perhaps a couple of minutes--before the bow swung enough to power the main and begin sailing off and out of the hove-to position. (I forgot how easily driven the CS hull is... just a little chance to catch some air and she tries to go!). I was going to next experiment with varying the CB depth to see how that affected the balance of this more complicated heave-to setup, but I lost my winds so I had to quit.

In the same conditions, the simple method of heaving to (sheeting in the mizzen fully, letting fly the main) held the boat almost straight into the wind (with the bow rarely falling off by more than 7 degrees) and produced a backwards drift of about 0.94 knots. This position could be maintained infinitely (assuming no lee shore) and without any input from the helm or any need to carefully adjust the sheets.

So the more complex approach to heaving-to, in which I tried to get the sails working against each other is noticeably more difficult to establish and sustain. I found it more manageable to get the main and mizzen working against each other by making small adjustments to the rudder angle and the main sheet trim, but there there was nothing to indicate that this heave-to position would offer any advantage worth the trouble of finding the finnicky right settings. I'll try again next time we get some much higher winds, in the 15 - 20 knot range, as that may change the results.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Generally I let the main fly free and simply allow mizzen to ease a bit.

Windage on the forward part of the hull rather than on the Main is what allows you to be off the wind a bit,  yes it will vary a bit and you might tack back and forth,  ...

[Joel B]

Thanks for the report Wes.  I think that answers my question.  Its whatever works and for the cat ketch Ray's method seems to be the way

[Tom Lathrop]

My recommendation for heaving to in a cat ketch is what most have offered.  Mainsheet free, Centerboard fully down, mizzen in hard and tiller tied off to leeward.  This is the best way to start and you can vary to suit conditions as you learn more.  The tiller to leeward makes the bow want to fall off but the sheeted in mizzen and forward CLR from the CB will allow only so much of that.

Adjustment to the CB is the next thing to vary to see what that does in different wind strength.  Then allowing a bit of fullness in the mizzen changes the forward drive.  Adding mizzen drive plus handing the tiller midships (both in varying degrees) changes the boat from hove-to to fore reaching, to actually sailing toward the wind and the ability to tack. 

I have not actually tried to tack the cat ketch with the main flogging but it works fine with it either down or rolled on the mast.  The flogging main may create enough drag to prevent tacking or sailing to windward.  The loose and flogging main will be less a problem in light wind and probably prevent tacking in strong wind.