Jump to content

heaving to in a cat ketch


sscoville

Recommended Posts


Heaving to in a cat ketch?

Conventional method:   Fully sheet out the main and fully sheet in the mizzen while pointing the bow directly into the wind.    Optional: then raise the cb and/or raise the rudder.    Drift backward at ~ 1 knot.   The sheets, helm and cb can be left unattended.  Useful for a variety of reasons:  for reefing / unreefing,  for dealing with the anchor,  for manual bailing,  for taking a break from the helm if single handing,  etc.    Be careful not to inadvertantly sheet in the mainsail while reefing/unreefing it.

Alternative method:  Slowly motor directly into the wind with main fully sheeted out.  May or may not need to sheet in the mizzen.  This method requires someone to stay at the helm motoring the bow directly into the wind.

--Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  The good thing about unstayed masts that rotate is you can unclip the sheets and do whatever you need to do without bothering over which way the boat is pointing (unless you've got big steep waves to worry about).  If there's something in particular you need to do (reefing, etc.) then there are various ways to make sure the boat is pointing in a good direction.

  If you really want the boat to point into the wind for a while, you can let the main sheet fly, Haul on the mizzen snotter to flatten the sail, sheet the mizzen in hard, keep the centerboard down and remove the rudder (get it out of the water completely).  You'll drift downwind stern-first.

  The best thing to do really depends on what you're trying to accomplish by heaving to, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't perceived any need to do anything with the rudder.  I just harden mizzen and let main run free and let rudder do whatever it wants.

easing mizzen a wee bit and allowing main to run free allows baot to be a bit off the wind and if really blowing, bow provides some windage afor a bit of forereaching.  A bit more of a slick sets up to windward and backwards movement is a bit slower.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm having a little trouble understanding the theory.  On a sloop the main and jib work against each other with a little help from the rudder.  On the cat ketch you harden the mizzen and let the main run free.  If I understand it, the mizzen will weather cock the boat into the wind and the main will luff free and the boat will drift aft with the wind.  It seems to me that heaving to is putting the boat intentionally the irons

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  Okay, this is just my experience, and if your boat is set up differently your results may vary.

  On my boat if you leave the rudder to do whatever it wants when you sheet the mizzen in (but not all the way) you will have a hard time.  When I ease the mizzen a wee bit and leave the rudder unattended (I've made this mistake when reefing the main) the rudder will steer the boat to fall off until the mizzen fills.  By then, the boat will be traveling backwards at a good clip and the boat will continue to fall off for a bit before the boat starts sailing forward.  In the meantime I'm standing on the bow (in front of the main mast, singlehanded) and the rudder has turned the boat so far off the wind that the boat heels VERY far while I'm trying to hang on for dear life and the boat is beginning to sail to windward again.  I'm talking about trying to furl the mainsail while in real wind, here, so that's what I meant about it depends what you're trying to do.  It's not fun to be standing in front of the main mast while watching the lee rail threaten to go under.

  In the particular situation where I'm going forward to furl the main before moving the mizzen mast to the reefing step it is (in my opinion) a BIG mistake to leave any slack at all in the mizzen sheet or snotter (Haul em both hard).  It's survivable, but why sink the side deck when you don't have to?

  The correct procedure for heaving to is really dependant on what you're trying to accomplish.  If I have to do something with the mainsail I try hard to keep the boat pointed into the wind, which includes securing the rudder amidships or (even better) removing it while leaving the centerboard down.  If I have to mess with the mizzen I'll haul the centerboard up and lash the rudder amidships while I run downwind on the mainsail (the faster the better, if you have the room).

  Heaving-to seems (to me) to be a tactic for dealing with an extended blow when meeting a storm in a keelboat while sailing an ocean passage (but I'm not sure, because I'm not an offshore sailor).  In the inshore conditions that I usually sail, my first line of defense is usually letting both sails fly while deciding which one to deal with first.  Once I know what sail I want to work with and how much drifting room I have, I decide which direction to point the boat.

  One thing I've learned NOT to do is let the tiller fend for itself and ease the mizzen sheet a bit.  That might work okay in a light breeze, but it will flip my boat or break my rudder in real weather.  I have done this in real wind and I will not do it again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  So Joel,

  I guess the question I have is what are you trying to accomplish while heaving-to?  I haven't really sailed sloops much and I've not done much offshore so my answer is when you've got something you have to deal with there are a lot of options with a ketch.  You can really pick the orientation of the boat to optimize the work you need to do.  Ketches are a lot of fun because you can pick any number of solutions to whatever problem you have at hand.  You can even sail back to a lost rudder if you have to (assuming you can keep it in sight) using just sail trim to steer the boat (within reason).

  So why are you planning to heave-to?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For purposes of reefing the main on our CS20:  

Ideally we want to let the main flop about unconstrained while tying reefing knots on the main; otherwise, the effect of inadvertantly holding the main still is the same as sheeting-in the main  which makes the boat want to start sailing.  

In higher winds I have found the boat more forgiving in this regard if the rudder is fully rotated out of the water.  Leaving the rudder down and locking it in the go-straight-ahead position has seemed only second best (but fine in lighter winds).    

I usually raise the centerboard (CB) too in higher winds as this (seemingly logically) makes the boat more forgiving (i.e., less likely to try to start sailing.)   As long as the main is completely free to flog away,  a fully deployed (down into the water) CB should provide a beneficial pivot point for the mizzen's weather-vane function  --the more forward the pivot, the more beneficial it is. But having the CB fully or partially deployed has not seemed necessary for the mizzen to do its thing,   and if I accidently hold the main still while reefing it then the fully/partially deployed CB can act an accomplice to the main's trying to make the boat start sailing.    

--Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

easing mizzen a wee bit and allowing main to run free allows boat to be a bit off the wind and if really blowing, bow provides some windage afor a bit of forereaching.  A bit more of a slick sets up to windward and backwards movement is a bit slower.

What Ray describes is closer to the oft-described ideal form of heaving to... i.e., creating a larger slick and a slower backwards movement, both of which are important when heaving-to is described as a storm survival technique as advocated in several heavy weather sailing books (though those books are assuming a much heavier boat than the CS series).

I suspect that, similar to a sloop (but arranged differently due to the split rig on the CS), there is probably an ideal setting at which you could sheet in the mizzen nearly all the way, but with a bit of slack. Then trim the main so that it swings out somewhere to about 30 - 50 degrees (I'm guessing). Then set the rudder (with a friction lock or tiller tamer line) so that the boat is trying to turn the stern downwind (and force the main upwind as the boat drifts backwards). The goal would be to hold the boat at approximately 30 - 40 degrees off the wind, performing a series of gentle dips, which would create a considerable slick, more resistance from the centerboard (which would be lowered during this maneuver to allow a tunable fulcrum between mizzen and main pressures), and a very slow downwind drift.

To be clear, I haven't had a chance to attempt this (I've always used the simple method of just sheeting in the mizzen and letting fly the main), but the split rig is so tunable that I am fairly certain some variation of what I described above would give you a slower (if more complex to set up) drift closer to the "true" heave-to of a sloop (in which the sails do work against each other to negate a bit of the drifting force). I don't know if this would be important, unless you had very limited sea room and it really mattered to have the slowest drift possible. Even then, it might prove not worth the effort if it wasn't a much slower drift than the simple method. My boat seems to drift back at about 1.0 - 1.4 knots in approximately 15 knots of wind, using the simple method. It is also possible the more complex method might give an easier ride in large waves, though I'm only guessing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I am heaving to to reef the main I shett in the mizzen hard and work on the main keeping an eye out for what I am drifting down on. 

I don't worry about rudder at all in that case even in heavy winds the Mizzen keeps me nose to.

I am always prepared of course to let the main run free if it fills with wind form a gust so I don't bear off in a hurry and go swimming.

If I am sitting in the middle of the lake and taking a breater than I ease the mizzenn a wee bit leaving the main to fly free and again don't worry over the rudder.  I am off the wind a bit and for reaching where you will sail forward a bit, round up and then fall off and repeat.

I slick is typically set off to windward which causes waves to break up before hitting the boat.

ks for me anyways and that has been in 15 knt plus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I slick is typically set off to windward which causes waves to break up before hitting the boat.

Yep, that's exactly why some recommend it highly in heavy weather conditions... a proper heave-to in a well-found boat can actually use its slick to considerably calm the waves and stresses (so the argument goes, and a number of people like the Pardeys now seem to endorse it as fact).

The complex form of heaving-to which I was hypothetically envisioning above should--if it works--maximize that slick and the calming effect, and should also (ideally) allow the sails to remain mostly filled but working against each other, which reduces the amount of flapping that can happen when heaving-to the simple way. That is what happens in an ideal case with a sloop that heaves-to nicely. I don't know whether it is actually possible in the CS, but someone experimenting with and tweaking what I recommended above could quickly find out if there is a magic balance point at which both sails are partially engaged (but negating each other) and holding the centerboard closer to perpendicular to the direction of drift (increasing slick and slowing that drift). That would be the goal, if the concern is to get the full benefits of a heave-to under rough conditions.

That said, the simple method of sheeting in the mizzen works fine for me, and is probably preferable for when it comes to reefing, which is the main reason I would want to heave-to in a CS. I don't know if even an ideal heave-to would work very well as a storm technique because the boat is such shallow draft that I don't think it would ever generate the same magnitude of calming slick as the kinds of (larger, heavier, deeper) boats that are described in the heavy weather sailing discussions. Just thought I'd introduce the idea for discussion while we're talking about heaving-to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Raise the cbpard some so it is more parallel,  if you want you can leave the main so it is just barely drawing and harden the mizzen and bear off for all it is worth on tiller.

I have seen a  slick to windward with the CS.  Done same with my West Wight Potter by tacking with jib tied off to windward, main fully eased and tiller to windward deck with tiller tamer.

It is not the weight of the boat that determines slick producing ability as much as it is depth of underwater area.  IE deep full length keel lays up more of a slick than shallow draft cboard.

No wif you really want ot see an awesome slick, tack the Schooner Bowdoin with headsail left tied off and ease the main and fore fully ands steer the wheel all up.

Awesome slick with waves dissapearing on either side of it.

If concerned about tiller on CS get a forespar extender with tiller boxes in coaming or get a tiller tamer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I'm understanding that clip/diagram correctly, it looks like he has the boat taking the wind directly on the beam (I may be mishearing/misinterpreting it). However, those folks who recommend the heave-to as a heavy-weather or storm-survival sailing technique typically say that the boat should be pointed closer to the wind... perhaps about 30 - 50 degrees off the true wind, so that it is not taking the wind/waves directly on the beam, but at an angle that eases those forces and softens the ride (yet still creates enough drift resistance and calming slick to also derive those benefits). I do know that in a traditional sloop rig, the jib is actually supposed to fill the opposite direction of the main during a proper heave-to, but his diagram appears to have the boat so far off the wind (assuming the wind is coming from near the top of the screen) that that would not be possible. His point #3 says to have the wind "just forward of the beam" but I think it is theoretically supposed to be kept somewhere further up into the forward quarter. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Although I haven't read the full book, I am fairly certain that the Pardeys in their heavy weather sailing advice even go so far as to say that if the boat will not lie in this position, one should use a sea anchor to adjust the attitude of the boat. They seem to think it is important that the boat not take the waves/wind directly abeam, which makes sense to me also. You might do an Amazon search for the Pardeys book on storm survival or heavy weather sailling techniques... as I recall, Amazon lets you "preview" quite a few pages of the book, including several of those where they describe the theory and benefits of heaving to in heavy weather.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heave PILGRIM (Pr22) to usually for working on the main sail, either reefing/un-reefing or raising/lowering sail.  The way my sprits are rigged, this is done on a starboard tack because my main sprit boom is rigged to port of the main mast and it is easier to work the halyard and downhaul from the stbd side.

I ease up into the wind on starboard tack, tighten and flatten the mizzen and loosen the main sheet, holding course with the rudder until way comes off the boat.  When way is off, and the boat is ready to back down, I take the tiller to port which turns the rudder to starboard, which stabilizes the boat drifting backwards on starboard tack.  The flattened mizzen holds her into the wind very well.  I've done this in pretty strong winds with no problem, but you have to keep a weather eye out for what is to leeward :shock:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wes

You are right.  When I heave to in my little sloop the bow points just into the irons, about 30 degrees off wind.  The main is set for a close haul but I keep the jib back winded and the rudder is set a little into the wind.  The main wants the boat to turn into the wind. The jib wants the boat to turn away from the wind and the rudder is usually need to help turn it into the wind.  So the sails are working against each other. when I want to sail again I just push the rudder over, the back winded jib pushes the boat down wind then I reset the jib and keep on sailing.

The trouble is, I am having a hard time seeing how the sails work against each other on a cat ketch.  From the description I have heard it seems that heaving to in a cat ketch is a matter of setting the mizzen hard so the boat is intentionally in the irons and when you are ready to sail you pull it out of the irons and sail on.  Am I correct in my analysis?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

Supporting Members

Supporting Members can create Clubs, photo Galleries, don't see ads and make messing-about.com possible! Become a Supporting Member - only $12 for the next year. Pay by PayPal or credit card.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.