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Man did we ever get wet today.


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Dripping wet from head to toe!

My crew member was worthless as a spray deflector today.  No deflecting of spray at all.

It was blowing like stink,  We were reefed and we were close hauled and we were planing at 7 -7.5 knts.  We were taking on about 15 gallons of water spray on board on each tack.

On Starboard tacks we were using the anderson bailer to evacuate water form the boat.

We were also getting beginning stages of hypothermia due to high winds and wet clothes when we finally dropped sail and rowed back to the dock.

Dock was dead down wind and hence the rowing aspect.

By same token when we stopped rowing to let the stink potter who insisted on cutting ahead of us we found we were able to beam reach at about 1.5 knts under bare poles and hull.

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Dock was dead down wind and hence the rowing aspect

I have to say I can't think of any reason to row downwind in a sailing boat with a good breeze. If wind chill was a factor then going with the breeze as fast as possible minimises the effect :lol:

Cheers

Peter HK

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Dock was dead down wind and hence the rowing aspect

I have to say I can't think of any reason to row downwind in a sailing boat with a good breeze. If wind chill was a factor then going with the breeze as fast as possible minimises the effect :lol:

Cheers

Peter HK

Well we sailed to about 200 ft of dock and then dropped sail and rowed.

I didn't want any more force pushing us onto the boat launch than necessary which is why I didn't sail to the dock with sails up.

If the wind had been around 6-10 MPH I would have sailed down to dock and let sails fly forward at the end and flog a wee bit.  but not with winds we had yesterday.

Besides, by having oars deployed you have a reverse feature you don't have with sails.  We were sailing under bare poles and hull form too with steerage way.

Only time the devil tempted me with a motor Wes was when we were initially lrowed away from the dock to have clkear lake to leeward before raising sails.

the 9 foot sweeps worked quite nicely with both myself and my son pulling on one each.

Rowing out single handed might have been more of a workout,  but I don't think I would venture forth single handed in winds such as we had yesterday.  They were far in excess of the 11-15 knts forecast.

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Whilst it was in the 70's yesterday , the combination of high wind and cotton clothes soaked with water did mean that rowing back to shore was welcomed for warming up a bit before hauling out.

We also had very low humidity yesterday.  By time boat was all buttoned down to trailer down the road we were both pretty much completely dry where as we were dripping wet out on our close haul course.

From now on I think we will wear full foulies anytime winds exceed 15 knts.

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I got wet yesterday as well. Traveled to to Shackleford Banks and arrived at high tide, which means we had to drop the hook many yards offshore and swim/wade to the beach. Ocean water was a clear green/blue hue - perfect. Beautiful beach, very few people, and a few wild horses.  I stayed wet, but when the southern ocean water temp is low 80s and the sun is shining and air temp mid-80s, all is good. :smile:

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I've been off the site for a while because I had to postpone the build.  I did buy a 16' racing dinghy to learn to sail and to figure what I want out of a boat..  I've been on it 6 or 7 times and today we totally turtled it.  We were coming in on the jib because the wind had kicked up. When we tried to tack over we got caught in a micro burst. when I tried to turn it into the wind the tiller snapped and we lost control and went over.

How is the stability of the CS 20?  I can't relax for a second on this boat.  I assume that because its a racing dinghy its inherently unstable.  I have realized that speed is not my primary motivator and I would like something easier to sail and more stable.

I have been away for a few months.  I still see Wes and Ray are still arguing about motors.

By the way Wes, I'm going to the Shakespeare festival in Cedar City Thursday to see "The Merchant of Venice"

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How is the stability of the CS 20?  I can't relax for a second on this boat.  I assume that because its a racing dinghy its inherently unstable.  I have realized that speed is not my primary motivator and I would like something easier to sail and more stable.

At no point have I ever felt in fear of going over in a CS 20.

Very stable boat.

Now that doesn't mean it will never capsize if you do something very wrong,  but I can say I have never felt out of control.

We reefed simply in an attempt to have a drier ride.

Before reefing we had near constant spray on close hauled course.  Reefed we had intermittent spray.

In retrospect we might have been warmer unreefed as the water felt warmer than the wind and intermittent spray didn't mean we were any drier.

Visibility of other boats was problematic though with constant spray un reefed.

As to reefing we did it in the middle of the lake in heavy winds. 

I hardened the mizzen lying hove too and drifting back.  And with winds we were facing we were drifting back at a fairly good clip I might add.

Once Main was reefed and trimmed I un clipped main sheet from the main and let it fly free as we worked on the mizzen.  Mizzen seemed a bit more problematic to reef getting clew of sail in snotter.  It is farther aft on the boat and with the mizzen not heading us in the wind the boat bore off a bit leaving that point outboard.

If I were to add a cheek block and line to reef a sail it would only be on the mizzen myself.  I perceived of no need for same on Main

I have been away for a few months.  I still see Wes and Ray are still arguing about motors.

I love to Raz Wes about his dependence on a motor.  But in truth I have no problem with anyone putting a motor on any boat.

I truly do see the benefits to motors.  For me though I truly prefer no motor on the CS boats.

I like the challenge of going forth and back without infernal combustion appliances.    I like the stretch on seamanship skills.  I like not having to register the boat and paying the state for the privilege.  Sort of like sticking it to the Man.  A bit of a rebellious streak.  I like the quiet of not having a motor running.

If I had a motor on board I would end up using it in areas I do quite fine without it.

Quite honestly I can't see succumbing to placing a motor on a CS series boat until I become much older and hence either weaker, less agile or mentally slower.

I guess if Wes perceives a need in those areas now, then good for him to have a motor and protect the rest of us...

Wes knows I am simply kidding him though and that I think quite highly of him and it is just a  running gag.

From time to time though I do feel the need to explain it fuller for casual visitors to know.

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Yep, Ray and I have been kidding back and forth about motors for going on two years. No real tension there, just all in good fun.

About the stability of the CS20, I agree with Ray. It feels rock solid, even if you take quite an unexpected puff when the sails are sheeted in fully. I keep wondering if I'm doing something wrong (or crazy) when I see reports about needing to reef, etc. in the CS because I've been caught in sustained gusts up to 28 mph now, carrying full sail (my sails are oversized with battens), without feeling even slightly in danger. The fetch on the lake is limited to about 2-3 miles, so perhaps its simply that the wave conditions can't build here like they can on the ocean, but I've never felt unsafe in the boat. Of course, when the winds are above 14 knots, I never cleat off the main sheet. I hold it in hand, ready to ease when the wind suddenly intensifies. Let out the main a bit and she rolls right back up and level again. Very nice.

Probably, I SHOULD be reefing at that point (14+ knots) because I suspect I'm carrying more sail than the boat can efficiently use at that point, but as long as the boat feels steady, the sails aren't flapping themselves to pieces, and spars don't look strained, I don't bother reefing. The high winds rarely last more than an hour on the lake here, so I usually just sail close hauled to settle her into a nice easy pace, reduce the sail strain, and slice into the waves. Then when things settle back down I resume experimenting with my sails and going nowhere in particular.

In any case, that gives you an idea of how capably stable the boat is. I'm not an experienced sailor by any means, having only sailed since 2005, in the two boats I've built: the Stevenson Pocket cruiser and now the CS20.

Wes

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Probably, I SHOULD be reefing at that point (14+ knots) because I suspect I'm carrying more sail than the boat can efficiently use at that point,...

I don't know about that.  The boat was definitely faster before I reefed and wind was over 14 knts without question

We reefed primarily to reduce spray and try to be warmer drier and to see better.

If we had Full foulies and goggles we might  have played a bit harder.

As it is I was rather amazed to find we were planing close hauled at around 6.5 to 7 knts per GPS reefed.

In the puffs  we were pointing higher to make better VMG and we could easily have a lift of 25 degrees on a  stronger gust.

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Yep, I can sometimes squeeze out about 6 knots of speed close-hauled. That's at about 45 degrees off the true wind, though it feels like I'm pointing even higher because the boat speed shifts the apparent wind forward a bit. More commonly, though, pointing that high makes the boat reluctant to plane and I usually see speeds around 5 knots. If I fall off about 5 - 10 degrees, she'll jump right up onto a plane and go, but if the wind is really blowing, I prefer the slower pace she adopts when really close hauled because I take less spray in the face from the oncoming waves.

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By the way, Ray, from what I've read the situation you describe sounds like an ideal case for a drift/sea anchor. Deployed from the bow, it will hold the bow into the waves for a (comparatively) drier position, and will allow you to go forward to hunker under the dodger for a mug of cocoa and/or some drying-off while the boat drifts slowly downwind. Unless you're in unusually tight quarters near a lee shore, the drift can be slow enough to buy you quite a lot of time for relaxing and recovering. (A few minutes reprieve from wind and water can make a very big difference to whether or not--and how badly--you suffer from hypothermia. If you have enough sea room, you might even be able to drift slowly enough that you can wait out the weather altogether.)

I've never deployed a sea anchor from a sailboat, but I once used a small one on my sea kayak to buy some rest time when caught in quite a blow on Lake Superior that was threatening to force me onto a lee-side cliff about a 1/2-mile off to the side of me. In the kayak, there was nowhere to hunker down for shelter from the cold water, but it was great to have a few minutes to rest from the paddle every hour or so, and I was very pleasantly surprised how well the small sea anchor held the kayak into the wind/waves, dampening the motion of the kayak and reducing leeway to a small fraction of what it was without the sea anchor.

Of course, that means you would need to have a dodger and a sea anchor on board, which you may not.

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No dodger, no sea anchor.

I am thinking of adding a cheek block some line and a cleat on sprit for ease of reefing the Mizzen.  No need on main in my estimation.

And from now on I will not venture out when there are significant white caps without full foulies.

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  Joel,

  The words "micro burst" and "tiller snapped" suggest (to me at least) a situation that can roll a CS.  The only time I've rolled my CS17, it happened after I did several bad things in rapid succession (it was me, not the weather, that did it).  I'm quite happy in a large range of conditions and I've dipped the coaming under water on more than one occasion without being too concerned.

  I don't know if a CS is more stable than your racer but I watched several (5?) lasers and I think a 505 go over in a gust that didn't really ruffle our feathers much.  They looked like dominos  8)

Ray,

Next time, once you get the main reefed try pointing the bow downwind and reefing the mizzen while it streams forward of the mast.  Or even better, if you've got someone to handle the tiller, sail downwind with the main while you reef the mizzen (if you've got room).

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   Joel,

   The words "micro burst" and "tiller snapped" suggest (to me at least) a situation that can roll a CS. 

Of course if the tiller snapped you could sheet steer effectively  with the CS.  Widely separated centers of effort has saved my bacon more than once.

However Microburst can hit with such suddenness that it overwhelms your response time altogether.

If sea space to leeward were present and reaction time allowed if I lost tiller I might just harden Mizzen and leave Main fly to stay pointed nose to wind until fury passed by.

Ray,

Next time, once you get the main reefed try pointing the bow downwind and reefing the mizzen while it streams forward of the mast.  Or even better, if you've got someone to handle the tiller, sail downwind with the main while you reef the mizzen (if you've got room).

That sounds like a neat idea in itself.

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A big part of what happened was my inexperience as a sailor.  The boat is called a Texas Tornado and is very similar to a 505.  We were beating into the docks because we could see the trouble coming.  We made it as far as the bouys when the wind increased considerably.  I dropped the main hoping to make it in on the jib. I had to make one more tack and just as we were coming through the tack we got hit with the micro burst that drove the bow around.  I tried to compensate with the tiller and thats when it snapped and the boat went over.

The lake sits at 5000 feet with mountains that go up to almost 12,000 around it.  The wind usually blows up the main canyon from the south but there are severalo small canyons that can funnel the winds  from almost any direction.  I wont run striaght down on the lake because of the shifting winds and I'm afraid of a jibe.  The lake (Deer Creek) is deep so the winds dont kick the waves up.  I am only five miles from the boat ramp on Utah lake but that lake is so shallow that 15 mph winds kick the waves up to dangerous levels.

I would have liked a motor so I could drop the sails and make a bee line for the docks but I had to depend on my sailing skills which are lacking.  None the less I am begining to love the sport and can't wait until I build my own.  I'm glad I am doing this because its helping me decide what I want from a boat.

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Also a question on the bailers.

I have two bailers., one on each side of the CB trunk.  They dont seem to work the way that I have heard them described on the forum.  I get the boat going and i'll open them up but I cant see them sucking the water out.  I think I hve the boat going fast enough to create the drop i pressue but I'm not sure.  Am I doing it right?

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