waiting for plans

[hrg]

Hi everyone my name is Harry Gunther.

This is my first post although my time logged is showing over 15 hours, as I have spent some time reading the postings on the core sound series and on the moccasin/flyfisher as well. Just finishing painting a slightly modified Flyfisher I am building, but still have the inside to varnish. I have a set of CS17 plans ordered and am hoping for them to arrive any day. This Flyfisher is my second boat I have built as I have a double kayak I built a couple years back.

i live in British Columbia, Canada on Okanagan Lake, a large deep lake. I have been on keel boats and played around on a Sunfish, but basically this is going to be my learn to sail boat.

I want to make the boat as dry as possible as the water temp is pretty chilly for a good part of the year. I was thinking of at least a dodger and possibly a mini version of the cabin on the EC22, but one that you could see over. Also I was looking at the Laser Stratos and was wondering if extending the side decks in a similar fashion would dry things up a bit?

I would like to thank everyone for all your previous posts as they are a wealth of information and entertainment.

[Gordy Hill]

Hi Harry!

I added small spray rails on my CS17 and they made a real difference up to a point. After the conditions got to a certain point I still got wet. Maybe not quite as wet, but wet is wet. My spray rails ended up looking like 3/4 inch quarter-rounds.

If I were to build another boat I'd strongly consider more aggressive spray rails, say 1 1/4" or even 1 1/2" and something that would look a bit nicer than quarter-rounds. This would not sit well with many purests, but if I build another it'll have them.

I had 1 1/4" rails welded onto my aluminum power boat and the change was dramatic. Of course this is apples and oranges, but I have to belive they would really make a difference on a CS17.

You could be our Guiana Pig!

Build oversized spray rails, sail the boat, trim as necessary and try it again. When you're finished you can paint it!

We'll be waiting for  a report.........

[tom151]

I added small spray rails on my CS17 and they made a real difference up to a point.

If I were to build another boat I'd strongly consider more aggressive spray rails, say 1 1/4" or even 1 1/2" and something that would look a bit nicer than quarter-rounds. This would not sit well with many purests, but if I build another it'll have them.

Gordy,

Where did you place the spray rails? Pics?

Thx,

[Brent]

The really wet stuff comes flying over the fore deck.    I invested in good foul weather gear, which makes big difference since I like to sail when the surf is up.

[hrg]

Thanks Gordy and Brent for your responses on how to extend the sailing season up here in Canada.

Gordy, I did find the photos of "Sawdust" under Scott Church in the members gallery area and bookmarked it. I see you installed the spray rails directly on the chine. Reading earlier posts there is a concern about parasitic drag, and you are right, not that popular a choice with some people. Would raising the chine up some to keep the low side spray rail from being submerged most of the time loose a bunch of it's effectiveness?

I watched Ken Potts video(looked like they were having fun), and it shows a good chunk of water coming over the fore deck. I am thinking a dodger or mini cabin/raised fore deck area would reduce a bunch of this water from reaching the crew. Would this be a real hinderance for installing/removing the mast?

Thanks again for your thoughts on the subject,

Harry Gunther

[Peter HK]

Hi Harry

You might find this site helpful re a mini dodger

http://www.batchelors.net/personal/boat/cs17/index.html

Quite a nice job of it as shown on these photos

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I have doubts that spray rails will be generally effective- usually these thing work in a narrow range of speed and sometimes make it worse at other/higher speeds. May work if you have constant/reliable breezes. From my experience of Okanagan (all 3 days) on the calm days they wouldn't be necessary and on the windy days they wouldn't work.

I must say when the change came through and the breeze was 30 knots the kite surfers didn't seem to mind the cold water  :shock: As an Aussie I found the water "quite" cold.

Cheers

Peter HK

[Peter HK]

Try these photos

[Ken_Potts]

  Harry - Keep in mind that we were on a broad reach in that video.  That's a dry point of sail for my boat.  Go with a dodger and good foul-weather gear.

[Tom Lathrop]

I consider spray rails on or near the chine to be a negative on a sailboat.  They work well on a powerboat for different reasons.

A boat quartering into wind and waves like a beating sailboat will always throw some spray.  Spray thrown to leeward is blown away and is of no consequence.  Any spray thrown to windward will be picked up by the wind and blown back toward the boat.  There is no way to eliminate this spray other than high sides and hull form.  Hull form has other more important criteria to meet than spray so we have to tolerate some of it.  Of course, the slower the boat, the lesser spray generated.  So  one way to avoid spray is to sail a slow boat :cool:

Spray rails work on powerboats because they can choose to go straight into the wind and all spray is directed away from the boat and may not be blown back into the boat.  If the powerboat has a high superstructure, the spray can be curled into the boat behind the high cabin even when going straight into the wind.

[Palolo Hawaii]

So  one way to avoid spray is to sail a slow boat :cool:

And another way is if you added a trapeze; you'd be dry and cozy out on the wire, while going quicker...

...but them olde purists would be hurling rocks at the idea.

"git off my lawn and take your trapeze ideas with you... next you'll be talking about foam cored composites, you whippersnapper!" 

It is how I stayed dry(er) on the 110. The helm would be usually be wet from spray, but I'd be warm and dry out on the wire. Inevitably, I'd make some comment about it and the mainsail would mysteriously "release" and I'd get dunked to windward.

[hrg]

Thanks Peter for the photos and link, very nice job on the boat and the dodger.

Tom, thanks for your explanation on how spray can end up in the cockpit of a sail boat. Some of your articles you have written over the years have contributed to the boat building disease I now have, and, building or sailing a slow boat is not going to happen in this corner of the world.

I guess I am trying to have my cake and eat it too, but I guess short of raising the sheer a bunch, not much can be done with the upwind spray entering the boat when quartering into the wind. Up at the bow there will be a dodger or raised foredeck.

[Tom Lathrop]

For the times you might be sailing in cold conditions, a dodger that works under eh mainsail should be nice.  In warm weather, a little water on the tush is not bad.  The photo shows the coaming I put on Lapwing.  I added a splash deflector that serves as fairleads for sail controls.  this directs some of the splash off the sides.  When all is said, the best spray deflector is a crew sitting to windward of you

[DeanHerring]

Tom, the coaming is not in the plans?

what are the three lines coming back from the main mast.

thanks, Dean

[John Turpin]

Dean, I think that the coaming is one of those design details that can be customized by owners.  If one wanted, he could run a coaming completely back to the transom and that would be the driest configuration.  Or, one could build a short coaming just at the front like Tom's.  I'll be doing the latter.  This will let me sit on the side decks more comfortably when hiking.  

Also, I'm betting that the Lapwing is a drier boat than the CS anyway.  Those lapped strakes should deflect some of the water as it's running up the bow in its attempt to find me and soak my pants.  But, what do I know?

[Tom Lathrop]

I haven't actually seen a full set of plans for Lapwing.  Most of my builds of Graham's boats were done with preliminary plans. The Coaming was just to suit myself and I do prefer not to create a crease in my backside when hiking.  Lapwing does seem like a dry boat but I don't know if it's drier than  CS.  It is a lot drier than the Bay River Skiff 15 and most of the small boats I've sailed.  It is definitely a little noisier, but I like the sound of water rippling off the strakes.

The control lines are for the mainsail snotter, halyard and downhaul.  Snotter and downhaul are needed close at hand for good control of sail shape. 

[Hirilonde]

  When all is said, the best spray deflector is a crew sitting to windward of you

That's true in theory, but most of them find it amusing to duck.  :sad: