47 replies to this topic

[Willy Wold]

So it is about 20% of the actual plans sold are actually built, and the designer gets pissed if one person builds more than one? So what does that make, 21.34% ? Geezzz, I would think the designer would be thrilled to see more of his boats out there.. More exposure would mean possibly more plans sold in the future.. Lookingh at it that way, maybe the design is too complicated for the person's experience, or too vague or actually isn't worth building after the person has had a chance to actually look at it.
WW

[Hirilonde]

Wily, you are trying to relate 2 entirely different issues that aren't related at all. Regardless of what percentage are actually built, and regardless of why this is so, the designer has the right to make money off of every unit. Your argument is like saying musicians shouldn't complain about people stealing their music on line cause it would give them more exposure. Or that authors shouldn't complain about people copying their books for the same reason. Creative people, be they writers, musicians, boat designers or what ever have the right to their own creations and deserve royalties from all using/acquiring them. This is what copyright is all about.

[PAR]

I see a bit of this along the fringes of most industries Dave. These are the folks that refuse to build to "code", download bootlegs, enjoy driving with a beer between their legs and generally are incomprehensible in rational discussion. They think they own the "rights" to the plans they've just purchased, even though the plans package clearly states, they have only purchased the right to build one boat. They generally don't understand or accept common contractual law, nor accept the 100's of hours of a designer or engineer's effort, that goes into a set of plans, as something worth paying for. Let alone respect the desires or wishes of the person(s) that actually do own the rights to the plans. As to the comments about "being grateful" or furthering the "exposure" of the design, well the designer has this decision and it shouldn't be placed or forced on him by seemingly well meaning, ingenuous plans owners like this.

[Willy Wold]

So, A person purchasing the plans, has made a committment to find further info about a certain design, and pays for the privilage of looking at them. So a person chooses not to take the plans from "drawing" to finished product, what "should" a person do with the plans that have the designers copyright and only one boat can be built from it; burn them, send them back, or simply let them rot in a drawer?

[Hirilonde]

So, A person purchasing the plans, has made a committment to find further info about a certain design, and pays for the privilage of looking at them.

You haven't made any commitment to do anything. You have simply agreed to use the provide information only once.

So a person chooses not to take the plans from "drawing" to finished product, what "should" a person do with the plans that have the designers copyright and only one boat can be built from it; burn them, send them back, or simply let them rot in a drawer?

Yes you can burn them or let them rot. I doubt the designer wants them back, but you could check to see if he/she has any return or swap for other plans policy. The complete plans are not study plans. They were never intended to help you decide if you like them or not. If you had not made up your mind to build the boat but were merely in the thinking/studying phase then you should have found another way to go about it. Both Graham and Jeff (the designers featured in this forum) have pictures, sketches, web sites, answer e-mails, and actively participate in this forum to help people decide if they like their designs enough to make a financial commitment to a design. Some designers do less. Some people go so far as to seek out an owner of a boat to test sail/paddle/motor it before buying plans. The bottom line is that the research phase is your responsibility, not the designers.

[Willy Wold]

I have sort of enjoyed the past week, being warmed by the fire, of probably a 3 foot stack of boat plans because the power was out, and polluting the air with the residue of ink, and watching some history go up in smoke. Course I'm burning a lot of other stuff in anticipation of moving into a condo for wife's sake, and no longer enjoy the smell of freshly planed wood, and epoxy ( nah, forget the epoxy smell).
I was going to send a couple of these back to the designer, no obligation to them since they retain the rights to the ownership and design. That way they can be assured that they don't fall into the wrong hands of someone that might seriously be inspired by them and follow thru; but they won't now because they will never know about the particular boat, because it was not referred to them by a person that was previously interested.
A couple years ago I was searching for a particular boat idea to see if there was something close to what I wanted, with no luck. Google is not your friend and Bing, isn't any better with information overload. These things get caught up with one word in 2 thousand, and bring up that site. Well I had to take a trip to the East Coast of USA, and during one of the boring meetings, I goggled what I had before and wow, an entirely new group of sites came up. That's when B&B, Bluejackets, and a few others came up that just were not coming up in the search from the West Coast. Or maybe they were, just several pages in when you get tired of looking, whereas here they were on the first page. I guess some of my research phase was having to get too much info to personally make an informed decision. I just wanted to be sure, considering the age that I'm getting, that the project could actually be completed by me in my lifetime and in the space allotted, and not burdon the estate with a pile of lumber trying to impersonate a boat.
WW

[Kudzu]

As I designer I am delighted when I get paid for my work. You don't buy a paddle from a store and expect them to be happy when you steal a second one do you? It's no different regardless how you try to spin it.

[Charlie Jones]

Good analogy.

As a builder I've occasionally built a second boat to the same plans. I've always notified the designer, and paid a royalty for use of the plans a second time. Allows me to have a valid hull number, and in the case of a sailing vessel, a proper sail number.

Matter of fact, I contacted Graham (B and just this week about a second dinghy from one of his plans. Found out there had been improvements, and he is sending me the updates.

Royalties are usually some percentage of the original plans cost by the way, since you already have the paper.

I would never consider allowing someone to use plans I bought to build another boat, unless I had not built the first one- then I'd pass the hull number along.

I DO have plans to build one more of every boat I've built though- as a scale model, for a display case at my house- one of these days