Jump to content

Reefing Cat Ketches


Howard

Recommended Posts

This has probably been covered before, but I'm wondering what happens to the reefed sail area on a cat ketch.

Looking at the geometry of it, it would seem the the reefing clew has to attach to the sprit at the point where when you lower the sail to reef, the reefing clew intersects with the sprit, or perhaps a little aft of that point to tension the now reefed foot.

Or do you drop the primary clew altogether and latch on to the reefing clew at the aft end of the sprit? If so, I'd imagine the area of reefed sail is then left hanging in the wind and the snotter end of the sprit then moves forward of the mast the same distance as the now reefed sail's foot has decreased (perhaps 6 inches to a foot). Times 2 for a double reefed sail?

Pictures of reefed down sails anyone?

What this is leading to hopefully is a comparison of sprits and wishbones and if the sail handling/performance of a bone outweighs the extra construction time and cost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


We just lower the sail, snap the reefing clew into the same hook as the regular clew, down haul the tack and go, usually. If we are gonna be reefed for a bit, then we roll the excess sail and use bungees through the nettles to hold it up. And yes, the snotter must be adjusted forward

This is the only pic I can find of us sailing with reefs in. We hadn't bungeed the excess here.

post-36-129497684111_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On dropping the clew for reefing clew, any problems doing that with the wind up? Sails flogging, etc? Shape looks good reefed like that.

Perhaps this is not that much different than chasing the clew of a jib around to make a sail change on a sloop? 

By comparison, on a "bone" rig, could you rig some type of jiffy reefing like found on a boom, bringing the reefing line from the clew to the mast, parallel to the foot? First thought on that is problem with variable tension as the "bone" rotates around the mast. Perhaps that should be done at the clew end of the bone, same as a sprit. Just less chasing and flogging, as you never cut it loose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should probably mention what motivates me for this. A few weeks ago, I entered my 17 foot sloop a race in which the winds were forecast to be 15 knots with gusts to 20. Racing, of course, is a bit different than cruising, as speed matters. So you tend to drive the boat harder than you might otherwise or get left behind.

So when I hit the water and pulled up some sails, winds were lighter than forecast. So, full main and 110% jib. (And I was sailing single handed.....no crew). Within 15 minutes of the start of the race, wind started building. With 10 minutes left before the start, I realized I was overpowered, so put a quick jiffy reef in the main, which meant I was out of the cockpit, boat tending herself, and while doing that, the jib started luffing/flogging wildly, and eventually wrapped itself around the forestay. Since the first leg was a broad reach to starboard downwind, I started the race under reefed main alone, tiller locked, I quickly went to the foredeck, dropped the jib, got it straighted out, hoisted and me back to the cockpit.

Second leg was a broad reach to port, about 3 miles. By then, winds had built to 30 knots plus, with gusts even higher, and as per GPS, I was averaging 6.5 knots with a theoretical hull speed of 5.4 knots. A couple times I saw 7 knots with no current at all. Have never seen her go faster. A few hundred yards short of the the second mark, I knew I was screwed. In a fetch of only a mile or so, waves were running 4 to 5 feet and surfing down the swells at an angle, I was hanging on to prevent a broach. Rounding the marker, I sheeted in and pulled out of the way of the other boats (most were twice my size), and tried to see how close to the wind I could get in that much wind. Not good, I was on my ear and constantly trying to round up. Had I had my 65% storm jib, I could have made a sail change and tied in a second reef and would have been OK, but by then, I was out of the race anyway, so it was get the sails down and under control. In that much wind, and bobbing around in that type of chop, reefing was going to be a chore.

This is the type of conditions you hope you don't find yourself in, but stay on the water long enough, and you will. Point is, you want to be able to reef easily and under control if you can. Any steps that are iffy, leave you at the mercy of the wind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked and don't have a close up pic of Pilgrim reefed.  The simplest way to reef the sails that have loops on the reef clews is to just slip them over the end of the sprit, over the unreefed clew.  This captures the reefed portion of the clew and makes it easier to roll/tie it up later without too much flapping.  As Charlie said, the sprit is then pushed further forward to make up for the shortened foot of the sail,  The location of the snotter on the mast is not effected as the angles are the same, reefed or not.

After talking to Graham on last years TX200, this spring I added Jiffy reefing to both sails for the clews, leading the reefing lines forward and cleating them on the sprits within easy reaching distance from the masts.  This added a great deal of control when it comes to reefing, particularly on the main. 

Reefing before doing this was always easy AT THE DOCK, but get caught sailing in a thunderstorm and it can be a Chinese fire drill reefing the main.  A short story - a few years ago a friend and I were sailing Pilgrim on Matagorda Bay along with Charlie and Laura on their Tehani.  We were sailing great guns downwind under full sail when it became evident the winds were building and we needed to reef.  Looking behind us, there was a pretty good looking thunderstorm bearing down on us and it was close.  We hove to by hauling in the mizzen sheet as tight as possible so Pilgrim would weathervane into the wind - reef the main first and then worry about the mizzen. 

As the boat pointed into the wind with the main sheet slack the sail was flogging up a storm (no pun intended).  I loosened the snotter to set the first reef clew loop on the sprit. But the sprit got away from me and the clew came off the sprit.  It took a while to get everything sorted out and get the reef set, all the while with the wind blowing a gale, trying to hold on the the loose sail and sprit end and stab the loop ;D.

This doesn't happen anymore with the Jiffy reefing on the clew. I also have a double purchase on the downhauls which helps a great deal. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't answer on the cat ketch- I do know Travis has installed regular reefing lines on Pilgrim so he can jiffy reef the main. Graham told him how to do it and it seems to work well.

On our boat, we just lower the sails and slack the snotter, hook in the reef point and re-hoist. But then we're in a trimaran. so we can work a little bit outside the main hull.And if we really get caught, we just drop the one sail -usually the after one if we are off the wind- and sail on the other til we get the reef in.

Also, reefing the forward sail is made easier by letting it go slack, hardening the after sheet and "parking" the boat.

On our sloop, we can ( and do) reef the jib. I use a toggle to connect the sheets to the clew, so all I do is unbutton it and move it to the reefed clew, then tie in the bunt

Real trick is to get the reefs in BEFORE things get out of control. I understand racing is a bit different though. I used to crew on several offshore racers :D

On the wishbone- Travis ( and I) talked to Graham several times about converting Pilgrim to wishbones. Graham didn't feel the gain was worth the trade offs in making the boat harder to rig, nor do I. On a boat such as the Core Sound, where the masts are removed each time, it might be different, but not on the Princess 22. I really don't see much actual loss in efficiency with the sprit on the "wrong" side of the sail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot to add that in the excitement of reefing in the gale, I neglected to cleat off the snotter line and having no knot in the end of it, the line came unreeved and the sprit went overboard, being only held by the mainsheet.  I then had to re-reeve the snotter line while my friend held the clew of the main to keep it from beating itself to death, not to mention himself ;D.  It took a while.  Needless to say, the snotter lines now have stopper knots tied in them.

While all this was going on, the boat sat there pointing into the wind, helm alee, like a duck with no one tending the helm.  A great testimony for the catketch rig.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like Travis has the "controlled" reefing plan worked out. A diagram or picture would be helpful, but I think I get the idea. The main thing being all the lines, etc. are captive and under control, even in a blow. Just trying to snag a reefing line on the end of a sprit conjures up visions of what I must look like trying to jab the end of my whisker pole into the jib clew when it's flogging.  ::)

On the "bone", I'm not sure it would be that much harder to rig. Couldn't you slid it down the horizontal mast to "straddle" the mast, where it would stay in the same place up or down. With the masts down, I'd simply lash the "bones" to the bottom of the masts and leave them put. There would never be any reason to take it apart and not that hard to remove if you wanted it off.

The other advantage of "bones, would be the option of lazy jacks to drop the sail or fall of a reef into until you get things tidied up. That and a track for the lines for jiffy reefing similar to what Travis described with his sprits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've thought about wishbones, too, but I suspect that there is little performance difference.

In talking to someone much more knowlegeable than myself, I remember discussion of the compression load on the wishbone.  As the wind builds it's more prone to flexing than a simple sprit.  That results in an overly full shape in higher winds.  On the other hand, wishbones seem more refined than sprits, no doubt.  More windage, too.  Tradeoffs.

Needing, always, it seems, to burn my own fingers I might eventually build wishbones.  First off, sprits.  The sooner I sail my pile of plywood, the better!  ;D

I think there's another benefit to sprits, though.  I can imagine an on-the-water conversation with a really nice floating monument to frozen snot.

The other guy:  Your sail shape is a WRECK!! It's hurting my eyes, please stop!

Me:  Hang on a sec, rock-n-roll ear injuries, I'm too far past you to hear, I'll turn around and sail back to you...  ;D

Speaking of frozen snot, I got my bottoms and topsides glued up at the bow last night.  Forget Red Bull, Core Sounds give you wings!!!  ;D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take a look at the videos here:

http://wikiproa.pbworks.com/2009%20Texas%20200%20blog

The one of Marty and Kim shows the mizzen being reefed on a CS 17 while under way at the recent Texas 200.  Hard to see any detail, but you can see that the extra sail is rolled on the main and the mizzen is dropped partially while the reef is being put in.  This appears to be under a good breeze. The one of Matt and Kevin also shows a CS 17 reefed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Travis,

Would you provide us with a picture of the jiffy reefing you are using on the clew.  It sounds like I might like to do something like it on "Lively". 

I have reefed in 25 knots but it was a little difficult stabbing the clew in the reefed position.  I would like to have the safest way possible and yours sounds great.

Thanks,

Dale

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dale, I don't have a picture of the jiffy reefing tackle, but it is pretty much like any other jiffy reefing set-up.  I do pull the reefing clew back to as close to the end of the sprit as possible. I dead end the reefing line on a SS loop on one side of the sprit, lead it up through a small bullet block attached to the reefing clew loop, and then back down to a cheek block on the other side of the sprit, then forward to a cleat that is easily reachable not far from the mast.

To set the jiffy reef point, all I have to do is loosen the snotter enough to pull the new clew in to the sprit and cleat off the reefing line.

The new tack is pulled down after loosening the halyard.  I use a block and hook to capture the tack which gives me a two part purchase, handy for pulling down the luff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Travis,

Since you rigged and sailed it - perhaps you can provide me with some guidance on an alternative I had been considering...

same as yours but the reefing fittings on the sprit would be attached forward on the sprit far enough so that the snotter would be able to remain set as normal during and after the reefing (only needing to be altered if the sail needed further trimming.

Thoughts? ...or even first hand experience from someone who has tried this or similar?

(edit: Yes Travis we need a picture ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Carl - No, the sprit in my case DOES have to be eased forward because I pull the clew down as close to the sprit end as I can.  Naturally this shortens the foot of the sail.

Tom H - I think your idea would work fine and if your measurements were right, the sprit could remain in its original position.  I chose not to do it the way you mention, because I was afraid it might weaken the sprit with the hole-drilling for the fittings and since the clew would be pulled down somewhat forward of the sheet blocks, there might be enough leverage force to break the sprit.  My sprit is close to a 2x2 in section, probably closer to 1 3/4x1 3/4.  It is probably strong enough, but I didn't want to take a chance on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.