Luff System

[Guest Joe Nelson Oregon CS20 #3]

Just wondering about the various preferences for the sails luff system. The sleeve system seems like it would be faster to set up and take down. Also smoother raising and lowering for various wind conditions and sail shape/tension adjustment from the cunningham. Are there any preformance or maintenance advantages that should be considered as compared to the laced luff system? Worried a little about chafing of the sleeve and its ability to be repaired??? Is this a reasonable worry?

Joe

joe_nelson22@hotmail.com

[Guest Gordy Hill]

Joe,

I leave my sails rolled up on the mast. I used to disassemble everything and all it accomplished was getting the sail dirty. My nice white sail always ended up on the ground when I was pulling the mast out...especially when I was alone. I had a sail bag made that is much larger than necessary. It probably would have been cheaper to get it smaller in diameter and have a long zipper installed.

Among other things, the bag protects the sail from the wind when trailering.

Try this link, (You might have to click on "Photo albums - then Gordy's Core Sound 17)

There are some pictures of how I store my sails.

http://www.messing-about.com/smallboats/albums.htm

sirgordy@peoplepc.com

[Guest Brent Sparks CS20 #31]

When considering sleeved or laced luff systems, is the reefing technique different? On a sleeved sail I wonder if getting control of the unused sail area is more of a concern.

I can visualize the cunningham being connected to the reefing grommet behind the mast, and the halyard lowered. Somewhere in this process the snotter gets slipped into a reefing point at the leech. Everything gets snugged up, and the sail is ready. What happens to the sail area below the reefing point? I cringe at the thought of all that sail crunched up into a bundle.

bljcatsparks@earthlink.net

[Guest Paul J [Aberdeen Wa]]

Sleeved sails as harder to reef than a laced on sail. With the lacing you can slide it on the mast and get the sail to flake [fold] this would make the sail neater when the reef ties are put in.

As to luff sleeves they can be made of a material such as Odyessy III which is a heavier material and will with stand more chaffing. It comes in white and a couple of other colors. It is widely used for bimini tops and high end bags.

For mast bags Sunbrella or Odyessy III are good materials. Gordy's transport system is the best way I think to stow the sails and transport the masts when trailering. A simple tube bag would be the cheapest bag design and one with a long zipper would of course cost more as it is more work to make. Oh Sunbrella comes in tons of colors.

I would be interested in what Graham has to say about reefing.

paul@ultasail.com

[Guest Graham Byrnes]

For the Bay River Skiff and the CS 17 we tried to keep things simple and just moved a mast to a third position to reef. In reality except for testing, with all the miles that I have sailed in both boats I have never reefed, prefering to feather through the gusts upwind.

With the Cs 20, moving masts around out on the water is not feasable. The CS 20 on our web site with the red sails is rigged with halyards and sail track. Reefing being a simple matter of lowering the halyards and pulling on reefing lines. It is an elegant system, but comes at the expense of cost and extra rigging time. The sleeve luff was conceived as a compromise, we used it first on Gordy's CS17. To reef (there is no halyard) he pokes a rod through a tube welded into the mast and rotates the mast winding up the sail. The rod locks the mast from unwinding and there is a reinforced patch in the sail 15" back from the luff with a webbing loop to which he clips his snotter. Gordy tells me that the boat handles so well with a mast in the 3rd (reef) position that he usually rigs the boat that way before leaving shore on windy days.

We usually use sail cloth for the sleeve and have had no problems with chafe. As there is no halyard, the sail does not rub up and down the mast, but it will rotate some on the mast.

[Guest Gordy Hill]

Actually, lately I've been too lazy to do any complicated reefing. If I sheet home the mizzen and lift the rudder blade the boat tends itself. Then I can unrig the main and roll it up. It rolls tightly on the mast with the help of my precision "mast wrench". (piece of aluminum rod)

Then I loosen the mizzen sheet and pick up the whole mizzen; mast, sail, sprit and all. It isn't really too tricky, even out on the water, but it does look somewhat like a rodeo event. With the mizzen in the center mast step the boat sails beautifully. In extreamly heavy gusts the boat just accelerates, never listing much at all. I fit the main sheet and since I have no rigging and the sheet is inboard I use this rig for trolling. I haven't caught anything this way, but I don't catch anything any other way either.

.

Well, I just spent 45 minutes trying to copy a photo of my boat cleverly reefed.

Try this link. You'll have to click on "Choose another Photo Album" to find Gordy"s Core Sound 17. If mine isn't up. The reefed boat is on page 2.

http://www.messing-about.com/smallboats/albums.htm

sirgordy@peoplepc.com

[Guest Brent Sparks CS20 #31]

Gordy, Let me say thanks for all the pictures you have posted. I find myself examing them closely as I try to imagine how I want to do the details on my boat (which right now is a stack of plywood).

I also greatly enjoy seeing the boats in action. I am building a boat in support of my diving, fishing, sailing habit. Seeing other people enjoying their boats is the next best thing to being out there.

I like the mast wrench idea. I will consider rigging both CS20 sails that way.

Graham, say some more about the sail track system. Is there a web site source for a luff track. Sounds like a few $, but it does seem to solve a few problems.

bljcatsparks@earthlink.net

[Guest Gordy Hill]

Brent,

My Core Sound 17 is a large dingy and the sail system I have couldn't be better, in my opinion.

The unstayed mast and sleeve luff make an incredibly clean and efficient sail. However, as things get bigger, I think a track becomes more attractive. It's easier to reef and the sail can be postioned at the top of the mast in lighter airs and to leave room for a bimini top over the cockpit. The sail can be positioned lower to give a lower center of effort in somewhat heavier condictions. Also, the sail can have battens, which, of course, dont lend themselves to rollling around the mast. It seems the CS20 is right at that size where either system would work. If I were building a 20 I don't kknow which I'd choose.

sirgordy@peoplepc.com

[Guest Graham Byrnes]

The sail track we used is 5/8" stainless made by Schaefer #184053. West Marine sells it for $45 for a 12' length. I have a nice picture of the rig that I can post when I can get my scanner sorted out, and Frank gets the new enhanced forum up.