ray Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 I'm new to the board and just wanted to say hello. I've been lurking for a couple weeks now but I just got registered. Lots of great information here and reading the posts definitely makes me more excited about starting to work on a boat of my own. About a month and a half ago I found a link to the Stevenson web site and I was instantly fascinated with the idea of building my own small sailboat. .....and now on to the questions! I've got the plans for the weekender already and I'm doing a lot of reading on building and sailing. I've never sailed before. I've owned a jet ski so I have been out on the water but it's obviously an entirely different experience. My biggest concern at this point is whether the weekender is really big enough to have 4 people on it. From the pictures the cockpit looks a bit small. I'm pretty sure this is the boat I'm going to build but I'm wondering if it's worth it to just go ahead and build the vacationer instead. I have a feeling this hobby is going to balloon anyway and I may end up with a bigger boat in a couple years if I don't just build it now. How do you who have weekenders do with 4 people? (gah, that's an a sentence my english teacher would cring at) I'm going to resist asking the rest of my 100's of questions now so I don't frighten everyone off at the beginning I look forward to the building and discussing to come. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Goyette Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Hi Ray Welcome to the crazy world of boat building. My weekender is about 85% finished and i started 4 years ago :oops: Due to my job and not having a heated garage, I could only work a little at the time. When I started building I only had one child and now I have 2, I wish I would of built a Vacationer for the space. But on the other hand you have to factor in space and $. All things consider with young ones and my wife I am happy with the Weekender. Dont be afraid to ask questions and read the plan very good.It will save you some trouble. Cheers Denis Ontario , Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kydocfrog Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 My reaction, now that my Weekender is in the water, is that if you need four people, then you should go ahead and look at the Vacationer. Towing capacity, trailer, number of boards and sticks and jars of sticky stuff you have to buy, all that has to go into the equation, but the Weekender is not a four person boat. IMHO. DocA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 I agree, the weekender is great for 2 adults and a couple of kids but four adults are going to be really crowded. best of luck on your project and decision!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Luckett Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Hi Ray, Welcome to our gang of boat builders! I believe you will have a very hard time finding a better bunch of folks or a better knowledge base that is so readily shared. I bet you have things to teach us too. Greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hagan Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Hi Ray! Welcome to messing-about! I found the Weekender cockpit too small for four adults. It was OK with three, if the third person sat in the companionway entrance. When ever we had four aboard one had to go into the cabin. The problem with the Weekender cockpit is how the boat narrows at the stern ... there isn't really room for two people to sit across from each other at the stern. So you are staggering people, one on the port side, one forward of that on the starboard, then another on the port. Now you're out of cockpit room (either that or I needed thinner friends.) I actually see the Weekender as a "transition" boat, where a guy can build it, learn to sail it, and then progress to a larger boat if he still has the inclination later. BUT, if you are always going to have four people (like your family!), then the Vacationer might be the better choice. But, one caveat: where are you sailing? Are you planning to go with the boat? If you are planning on being where there's wave action, then the Vacationer might not be the right choice for the bigger boat. I think it skirts very close to being unacceptable due to lack of ballast in that size boat. You can always add ballast, which I think would be a good idea if you go the Vacationer route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Paxton Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Another option is to take the cabin off of the Weekender. I can take four comfortably in the 10' cockpit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oyster Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Okay, this is what I did, as I wanted to have it all in one, a cabin boat that allowed storage and room for privacy for the misses and portapotty, and plenty of room for folks. I wanted to keep the profile down, but still allow for folks to enter foward, including me for the large amount of storage that I placed in the decked over area. I also wanted a binnacle mounted mast, which worked out for me, also. So this is what I did. I did the rounded cabin front. I then did three layers of ply, and tapered it down, allowing for the top to fit nice and tight, sealing water, and not rattling, and taped the seam joint. I then mixed up epoxy and cabosil and filled the tapered joint. Then I covered the glue with small strips of mahogany. I also made my own stiff knees and adjustable brakets out of white oak, and used some bimini top ends to make my hard and ever pivoting brackets, to support the opening top, and the alighnment was a bit tricky because of the ever changing angles when it rises up, and the top tapers foward in the round shape. This is the complete seating arrangment in my hull, which is not a weekender, but a skipjack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Doug (WA) Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Another option is to take the cabin off of the Weekender. I can take four comfortably in the 10' cockpit./quote] Bill, that is a beautiful boat. I'm suprised more aren't built that way. To me the cabin is only good for storage and looks. Isn't the someone that built on where you could take the cabin on and put it back on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Paxton Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 The Stevensons themselves built the "removable cabin" Weekender. You can view it at http://www.stevproj.com/KauaiWkndr.html Here's a picture of it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kydocfrog Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 If I were to do this over again, and this shortening of the cabin is a mod I might still make, I would cut the cabin/coach roof off at the center knee/beam behind the forward portlight and extend the seats forward to that point. I would keep an actual bulkhead and companionway/hatch though into the cuddy as opposed to a purely open arrangement. That would keep a lockable dry cuddy, nearly double the seating space, and might actually look a little more like a traditional small friendship sloop proportions on the deck. Then if you wanted to overnight, the cockpit with a drop-in center piece would actually be long enough for a sleeping bag or two under a boom tent. DocA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted August 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Thanks for all the replys. I think the point about the vacationer being harder to trailer and setup is going to make me stick with the weekender. I'm pretty sure it's going to be just me and the dogs for a lot of my sailing. But I am expecting to have 2 couples on at once so maybe I'll try to do a small modification to get just a little bit more seating space. Is it feasable to narrow the deck at the back of the boat to make the seats closer to the hull? Even getting another 6" of space between the seats seems like it might help a lot. Plus, i'm 6'2" anyway so anytime I can get extra leg room helps out. I do like the look of the boat without the cabin but I'm also planning on using it to camp and the cabin is part of the boat that initially drew me to the plans. Now, a removable cabin.... BTW, forgot to mention that I'll be doing both ocean and lake sailing. We have 2 very large lakes in Maine that I'm looking forward to playing on. Also, Casco bay here in Portland is filled with islands which both shelter the waters and provide camping locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave R1 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Ray, the side decks aren't that wide to begin with and I think you'll need what width there is. I am almost 6'2" and like to either stretch my legs out or tuck them underneath when I am sailing. I built slatted seats that are open below. I added a drawer at the forward end of the port seat to hold a few tools and other bits and bobs. (Bill, Kari's eyepatch is still in there from launch day. ) I couldn't find any good pictures of the seats but you can sort of see them here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Craig should weigh in on this, but I don't think there is a nickels worth of difference in launching. The Vacationer isn't THAT much bigger and the mast goes up the same way. Doesn't cost that much more to build either. For what you outlined in the first post, I'd recommend the Vacationer, for sure. I built a weekender for a customer who was about 6'3. He never was really comfortable on the boat and subsequently sold it. Had I known his size when we started I would NEVER have done the Weekender. We'd have built a Vacationer instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted August 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Hi Dave, Those are nice looking seats. Looks like it gives you room to tuck your feet under. Charlie, Thanks for that information. Was the boat a problem because of headroom? I'd imagine the cabin would be pretty low for someone over 6' but I'm sort of used to hunching. What about a pocket cruser? It looks like it's just a bit bigger then the weekender. But, it also says that it's slower. Not being a sailor I'm not sure how much of a problem this would be or how much slower. I'll be honest, the vacationer seems like a lot ot take on. If it's the right boat to build I'll do it. I'll just have to make more room in the garage :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave R1 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Ray, there isn't a lot of head room in the cabin. Some folks have raised theirs to gain more room. Mine isn't much worse than my small 2-person tent although it is a bit more painful and noisy when I bump my head on the roof. I think if I were building it again, I'd consider shortening the cabin to the middle rafter. If I thought I'd like to camp in the boat, I'd make box type seats between the cabin and the existing location for the cabin bulkhead so there'd be some leg room. I raised the boom on my boat by about 8" so the boom clears my head a bit easier during tacking. I also added 3' to the mast height which allowed me to spread out the hardware aloft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 The boat was a problem because overall it's just a small boat. It's only a 16 footer after all. There wasn't enough room betwen the seats for his feet- had to always have them slanted a bit. Also the seats were a shade narrow. The boom was too low, he couldn't get to the steering to adjust it, etc. It's just a litle boat, although a quite pretty one. The Vac is the same boat, just a little larger. I also have to go with Ray on this. I've built a Core Sound 17 for a client who sails with twin 5 yr old daughters. He's in love with the boat. Sails it on Galveston Bay. And I'm starting a CS 20 for another client very soon. He'll be sailing his on Pontchatrain. If you haven't seen the boats, at least take a look before you decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave R1 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Ray F and Charlie make some good points that you may wish to consider. On the other hand, the problems Charlie lists are all surmountable. Granted to do so requires varying from the plans a bit but at least in my experience none of these variations have caused any problems. My seats are wider and allow for feet to be comfortable. The boom isn't too low. My steering mechanism is easily accessed through a hatch in the middle of the stern deck. A side benefit to the hatch over the steering mechanism is that if there is a failure in the steering mechanism, one can remove the hatch and grab the stub tiller to steer the boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Donlin Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Another obvious solution to take four people sailing is to have the other couple build a boat at the same time as you build your boat. That way you can learn from each others mistakes. Then whenever you sail together you can have your own little regatta, besides more boats=more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted August 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I did take a look at the Belhaven 19. It looks like it's pretty much a CS17 - CS20 with a cabin. But the weight scared me off. It's about double the weight of a weekender. Again, not having sailed before I'm not sure how important that is on the water but it struck me as being a lot more to work on and off the trailer. I'll take a second look at it. I think I'm pretty much settled on having something with a cabin so I think the CS17 would be ruled out. One think I did notice about the Belhaven is that it doesn't have any deck on the sides of the cockpit. I'm wondering if you could do away with the deck on the weekender and arrive at a roomier cockpit. Is it there for structural support? I'll have to look over the plans when I get home. Excellent point Mike. But I think I need to lead the way so to speak. If you build it...they will..er..well probably want to go for a ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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