OK- it's announcment time- 3 new boats starting

[Charlie Jones]

Core Sound 20 #87 will be beginning very soon for an out of state client.. We go to Houston for the ply this week and Graham is shipping epoxy.

BUT- before that boat gets cranked up, Laura will be starting Birder # 73 and I will be doing # 74. Laura has informed me SHE'S gonna build HER boat. Since she's a very good woodworker I have no doubt about it.

We intend to get the two Birders cut out and folded, then start the Core Sound. That way we get all the spread out work done on all three boats while the shop is empty.

Pictures will follow as usual.

[Larry Q]

Charlie,

Just out of curiousity, where in Houston do you get your plywood? I bought mine from Houston Hardwoods who had the best delivered price to Oklahoma City.

[Charlie Jones]

I usually buy from Houston Hardwoods also. Clark's Hardwood lumber is good also, but slightly steeper in pricing. BUT they have a huge selection of solid lumber. Much more than Houston does and they have a good stack them selves.

Here's where we are at the moment on the Birders. First side taped at the joins. Going out in a bit to turn the butterflies over and tape the other sides.

Gotta get these two 3D so I can layout the Core Sound 20 starting Tuesday:) Not enough room to put all three out flat.

[P Doug (WA)]

Yahooooo! You started. If you don't mind I will be saving the pictures you post to refer to when I start my Birder. I have #75. Mine will be Hunter green hull, white bordering bright finish on the deck, lest thats the plan.

[Charlie Jones]

Kewl!!!- Ours are #s 73 and 74.

Mine may have a painted deck since I plan to use it for fishing. I was also planning a hunter green hull.

Laura hasn't divulged her plan for color scheme as yet. Hey- it MIGHT have murals on it

They've been flipped and the other side taped, but that's all that's happening today. I took the afternoon off!!!

[kmrmike]

I wish I had half the room you have!

[Charlie Jones]

The shop isn't really all that large considering I earn my living there. It's only 24 x 24 but it does have an 8 x 24 lean to on one side.

Here's what it looked like this evening, from the entrance door-

[Tom Lathrop]

Hi Charlie,

You will love the Birder. Just stable enough to to use birding binoculars without worrying about tipping. Named for Liz who is an avid birder. Here are Birders #1 and #2 at St Michaels, MD WB festval.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/bird.htm

They came out at 34lbs each using 4mm ply. No glass sheath. If you found a rock around here, you know that someone brought it from somewhere else. The knock down canvas and ply seats designed by Graham are good. The double paddles designed by Marc Pettingill are the best. Cheap, light, easy to make and excellent performers. The reverse hook in the blade makes a very useful boathook for grabbing limbs and stuff.

[Charlie Jones]

Hi Tom. I knew you two had Birders. I've seen that pic several (hundred?) times In fact, you and I talked about them once long ago, via email.

I was taken aback by one bad break in the okume when bending up the boats- one place, right where the sides separate, split after sitting for some 30 minutes- let go with a POW!. really surprised us. We had several other places where the plywood cracked a small amount, but nothing un fixable. I'm wondering if a fiberglass patch on those places would help prevent that. I intend to talk it over with Graham when he has some free time- he's sorta busy right now I imagine.

The boats look like they are gonna be absolutely GREAT for what we want. Laura is 5'2" and doesn't weigh much at all, so one of the critical points was having a boat she could handle by herself. Doesn't do her a lot of good having the boat if she needs help with it when she wants to slip out to take pics. I'll be watching the weight in her boat quite carefully for that reason. But the fiberglass on the bottom is almost a requirement here. Without it the plywood would be cut up so badly in a few weeks it would need re- epoxy coating. I may just glass the "football" and an extra layer of tape on the bow and stern though.

I'll be fishing from mine, using both conventional gear and with a flyrod. That's the main reason I'm building it- to get me back into the little saltwater ponds and sloughs around here, where the Redfish play. I may use a slightly heavier glass on mine. I can stand a little extra weight and I'll be in more gnarly places than she will. Or maybe not

I built a CLC Mill Creek some years ago for a customer so we looked at those also. But we both liked the wider arc bottom of the Birder more than the Mill Creek design.

I've tried that paddle by the way. We both had a chance to paddle a Birder when we took our cruise to Florida this year. Laura really liked it, which is why we went ahead with them. He had a Pettingill design paddle and it was very good. I may build a birdsmouth shaft for it, using some cedar, just to lighten it more. We'll see how time works out. He had built it straight and we are both used to offset blades, but that's simple to do.

Got to get them filleted today because I must crank up on the CoreSound 20 this week. HAD to get the Birders 3-D - can't layout three boats in a one boat space :wink: Now I can set them off to one side- they don't take much room once 3-D.

[P Doug (WA)]

Charlie, what are your thoughts about putting a keel on the Birder. It's optional but it seems to me it would help protect the bottom some, as well as better tracking.

[Charlie Jones]

I plan to add keels to both of ours. We commonly have a good bit of wind here. One of the reasons I didn't use the cedar strip Chestnut Prospector we had ( have) It was so light and so high in the ends that it was a real chore to use in the wind. The small keels should help tremendously.

The extra protection is a real bonus.

When I built our MiniPaw dinghy, I even added bilge stringers to the boat so the bottom wouldn't be what touched when it was dragged up onto a beach.

[Tom Lathrop]

The reason that the stern shape is different from the bow, as in the Moccasin, was to get better tracking. I added a small skeg on the stern also but am not sure how much they help. I sometimes use the paddle extended over the bow as an air rudder when running downwind. Since we are not dealing with white water maneuvering here, a small keel would aid tracking and help protect the bottom at the same time.

You are not the first to have breakage at that point. I have had success in preventing ply breakage when tortuing plywood by coating the outside of the bend with epoxy only. Just a thin coat squeeged on. It binds the surface fibers and helps prevent the breaks from starting. In the case you are talking about, there is a lot of stress concentration at the end of the cut. A bit of glass just behind the end of the cut could not do any harm. Common practice in industry is to drill a hole at the end of cuts and breaks to distribute the stress. That would help also and with the addition of a thin coat of epoxy might be all that is needed.

If you are thinking about glassing the bottom, Xynole is far superior for abrasion resistance. I ran some tests several years ago and found that Xynole was 6 times as abrasion resistant as a single layer of 10oz glass. Since it requires more epoxy to cover it, it is heavier than a single layer of glass but a bit less than two layers of 10oz glass and still three times as abrasion resistant.

The Pettingill paddles are vey light as they are. Not sure you could gain much by making them bird's mouth and the diameter might need to be too big for comfort unless you have really big hands.

[Charlie Jones]

Thanks Tom. I had thought of that also- the epoxy I mean. We did put a wire tie right at the end on the other boat to contain the pressure. That seemd to help a good bit.

By the way- there ARE still wraps on both boats in that pic- they are heavy cord run across the bottom only - seemed to really work well.. I put one at each end, RIGHT where the split started and that solved the problem. Still had a small crack right there but it didn't go anywhere- just cracked.

On the paddle shaft- I've been playing with Birds mouth and I did a test piece with a one inch shaft. Not at all hard to get that small. I saw some BEAUTIFUL double paddles over in Madisonville last year- not at the festival- at a boatyard where their yard woodworker was building them in the evenings. He had oval shafts, done with birdsmouth and the entire paddle was about 1.5 pounds or so- absolutely gorgeous woodwork. Shafts were about 1 inch by 1 1/4 inch, laminated with alternate colors of wood, and tapered to both ends. Just beautiful and he was having a hard time selling them for $125 each. Go figure.

[jtrobins]

Hi, if I can jump in with a question. I'm a relative newcomer about to start a Birder 2. When you say to coat the outside of the bend with a thin coat of epxoy, I assume you mean while the wood is rested and flat, not after bending, is that correct?

Thanks

Jim

[Charlie Jones]

exactly- before bernding. That would be to strengthen the wood before bending.

[Tom Lathrop]

Here is another hint that will save a lot of time and energy. When you coat plywood the usual way, the forst coat comes out very rough and needs to be sanded smooth. Doint this after the boat is formed up is the hard way.

Sand the panels with 220 grit when they are flat. Vacuum off and squeegee on a THIN coat of epoxy both sides except for the seam bonding areas. When cured sand lightly with 220. I sometimes jump ahead and forget to do this. Always pay for it with extra grunge work.

[inboil]

If it weren't for this discussion of a crack in the ply on the birder I probably would have flipped out --- thanks for the calming influence. Tried all of Toms tricks but still got one major(?) crack, about three inches long. And it didn't wait 30 minutes! Wondering about Charlies wrap that's "just on the bottom". some sort of spreader at the sheer that puts pressure only at the chine? In hindsight that seems like it would put less pressure at that fold point ?

[Designer]

I don't care to pre-coat the panels before folding because it stiffens the panels which puts more stress at the chine ending. We prefer to put a 1 1/2" square ply pad inside and out with a screw drawing the pads together, this takes all of the stress out of the chine ending.

[inboil]

ahaa--- its always something simple. I saw that in a pic on the website but didn't realize its purpose.

Do I now have a whopicoddled boat that belongs in the practice pile or will some shaping,taping and more shaping result in a satisfactory product? Chalk it up to R&D? I can always hunch one shoulder up and make believe that's how I see the world --- wear a mask when I paddle------ nah, can't do that.

[Tom Lathrop]

Every once in a while Graham and I have a disagreement. This is one. I think the thin coat of epoxy will easily be flexible and stretch enough that the plywood is not stiffened in any significant amount. The key is that the epoxy is put on as thin as possible with a rubber squeege so that it is just driven into the grain around the fibers. The purpose is to give the individual fibers some strain relief.

In this case where there is an extreme amount of stress at that junction, Graham's solution is undoubtedly the best.