Ken_StJohn Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 All: As I am getting to the no turning back point, I'd be interested in your view regarding things you would do differently if you had it to do over again! I figure there's got to be at least a couple things that really stick in your mind now that you're done. Might save some other poor souls (and me) from making the same mistake or not seeing a better way to do something. These modifications I am seeing on other boats have to be the result of some needed improvement found while actually sailing. After you see them it seems so logical. I've been sitting on the flat, unmounted, bottom hull panels trying to imagine some - but it's just not the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bunzo Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 I used the Polysail kit; the next time I'll NOT use the tape that develops into a very stiff edge on the sails, I think sewing would have been a better choice. And No darts,pleats whatever they call them, in the sail form , the sails get baggy soon enough with use, in my experience. Not saying its is a kit problem, just my lack of skill in taping and sailmaking I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Pyeatt Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 I would have used either Marine rated Meranti or Okume plywood instead of Marine Grade Douglas Fir. There is enough difference in product to warrant the additional outlay. I've had to keep my unfinished Weekender in storage for an extended period of time and outside without glassing it on a trailer over the winter. Although it was protected and covered, there was still enough moisture brought into the outer plys that the differences in softer grain and the harder grain really made it uneven. Just took a lot more work to make it fair and get it ready for glass. Also the current Marine Doug Fir and ACX Exterior plywood really isn't the same quality as what was offered just a few years ago. Face veneers are really thin and the quality of the peeler logs is much lower with the plantation grown trees. I also would have used nothing but clear, quarter sawn lumber with as straight a grain as possible. It just makes all of it a whole lot easier to work with and lots less issues with repairs down the road. I still would have continued to use the Dap Urea Resin Gule instead of epoxy for most of the construction. Just far less issues with glue starvation in joints and worrying about clamping pressure and temperature ranges. Also far less issues with sensitivity. Would still have chosen to use Vinylester resin for the glass work. With lots of time doing prep work to fair out the surfaces prior to laying the glass. Filling the weave was no issue at all and bringing to a fair surface was quick and efficient. Lots of good reasons for using Vinylester in my mind particularly in areas where heat is going to be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrthethird Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 This will floor Barry... I would use marine grade Meranti plywood in hull areas, rather than the ACX. The ACX I used is fine, and I expect no problems from it. However, after the huge construction-grade lumber price jump after Katrina, Meranti (Aquatek) is only marginally more expensive. And I would find a way to spray on the finish, rather than "roll and tip" it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oyster Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Scanning over your website, I see that you have been a time since you started this hull and gotten it to the point that shows in your avatar. So if I would add anything for you to chew on, keep the bulk of your boat simple, unlike so many others here that have created pieces of furniture. Remember that these are not battleships and ocean liners, and yes there will be another boat on the horizon that you will do, that will have a lot of the goodies that you will not be afforded in this one, or changes that will be needed for the future boating requirments. Do what you do right, the first time, and do not skip any finish work in the interior portions of your boat, closing it up too prematurely. Get the hull in the water, though, and sailing, and trick it out as you go along, after you become aquainted with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umop_apisdn Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 bought one that didn't already have fiberglass on it.... Noel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kydocfrog Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Well, good question. I bought my hull semi-complete, so I didn't make many major changes. I did extend the cabin hatchway to the forward cabin beam, making a semi-slot top. I am delighted with this mod. I can walk all the way forward to the mast, halyards, etc. I still do not have a fitted cover, but that is coming -- a soft sports car style tonneau for sailing and a hard fitted hatch for storage. (You can see this slot top on my recent posts, particularly the one titled Back to Captain Bob's. It isn't as traditional as a sliding hatch, but it sure is nice to to have to climb topside for all manner of line handling.) If I were building the hull from scratch, I would forget the wheel thing and design both the transom and the blocking at the rear to take a rudder on pintles mounted parallel to the slope of the transom and fitted with a real tiller. The wheel is too sloppy and slow in response for the boat. (See Adla and others.) It would also let you close that hole in the transom. The tiller also would allow you to sit further forward when single handing which would improve the way she sits on her chines. You really have to sit pretty far back with the wheel. I'll leave the ballast and dagger board question to others. See Tim Diebert's postings and website. Now that I have sailed her, there is one more really radical change that I would make. I would bob the cabin off at the middle beam (between the two portlight on the plan) and then extent the seats forward with a bit of a bridge deck. The cockpit is just too small in seating room and foot room. It's crowded with just me (5-11, not all that huge, but clumsy) and with two it will get very tight in any kind of wind. That would cut the interior space obviously, but it really is just a cuddy. Proportionately, the appearance would be fine; many friendship sloops -- the obvious visual image -- had really short deckhouses anyway. The trade off would be that the seats would then be long enough to put a folding plywood berth filler between them and use an honest boom tent if you really camped in her. I don't think I would eliminate the cuddy completely (there is one fully open undecked weekender on the board), but I sure would enlarge the cockpit. Your work looks great on your website DocA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMetzner Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Things I would have done differently: - Scarfed the hull side pieces. The hard spot created by the panel joiner drives me nuts. - Scarfed the rub rails or used 16' material. Same issue with the hard spot. - Built the steering differently, maybe Dave's chain & sprocket system. The slipping steering and having to work in that dang little lazerette is a pain. --John M Alaskan-in-Exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_StJohn Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Has anyone out there actually scarfed the side panel joint?? Any "issues"?? What ratio did you use for the cuts?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adla Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 i think phil gowans did - but he is out of town for a month i think....lots of pictures on his website though and some discussion: http://pragdata.com/philboat/mainpage.html a. i think there is a lot i would have done differently but nothing that i outright regret....my biggest concern was getting on the water and enjoying the boat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt jake Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I would use Meranti or Okume. I would scarf the plywood panels. I would waste the time rolling and tipping, spray it (as I eventually did). Round mast! More time on rounding the boom and gaff. I like my modification to the cockpit, but I would skip the compartments that extend from inside the cabin and make them accesable from the cockpit. I love my tiller! I love my roller furling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt jake Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 And not one word about sanding less! Nor ballast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oyster Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 To honestly answer the question, If I were doing it over again, knowing what I knwo now, ... I would go with a diffferent design from the Weekender. I do not think this statement is a fair one as not all of us are like you or even me. I never like blonds, but would never, ever suggest to anyone with a blond to forgo the blond. :roll: Thats classless. I think that the Weekender was originally intended and designed for a specific reason, and has met and far exceeded a lot of folks enjoyment in the mist of some horror shows, having nothing to do with the design, no difference than automobiles. Sorry, to express these views, but, after numerous years in the boating industry, and something that could be of good use to you, there is never one perfect design, period. Each scenerio carries with it pluses and minuses. Thats just a very unfair statement on your part, Ray, and does not apply to his inquiry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kydocfrog Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 I heartily second the comment on rounding the mast. I quit too soon on that phase, and even with partially rounding the corners still had trouble with the set and performance of the gaff jaws. If you are going to use a solid stick, round it. DocA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Ray, there is nothing wrong with an honest and personal answer. Oyster, there is nothing wrong with an honest and personal answer. There's no call to take him to task for it. Ken_StJohn, take it for what it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gudschinsky Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Okumee. Raise the cabin 6+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oyster Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Oyster, there is nothing wrong with an honest and personal answer. There's no call to take him to task for it. Correct, I have been accused of being a bit bold in many comments, but rarely you will ever find me scorn a complete design while a person is approaching a two year building process. Thats what I take issue with, The gentleman ask [paraphrase] what would be some suggestions to improve on the original set of plans, and building technigues and in general plain help him along the way, not should I burn the boat right now or take it to the dump. :roll: You are correct, There is nothing wrong with being honest, but surely IMHO, telling someone to their face that a blonde wife sucks when he is standing ther with a blonde wife, is a bit over the top. nuff here, if Frank wants to remove my comments, fine. In almost all cases, the members of this board, as its present state, have always made every attempt to be constructive, help and encourage people in their builds, not turn our noses up at someone because they want to even build jetski. when they ask some insights into the best way to bend or prepare a surface for paint. Knowing what I now know, ( which I wouldn't have learned had I not gone through what I have... I would choose a differnet design to build if my Weekender, burned, was stolen, or rotted away. I like the llooks of the Weekender, I would however prefer a boat with a more spacious cockpit, a vbottom, a more functional cabin, more form stability, and other issues also I choose not to go into. Heck, per his own statement, its a learning curve, as the design was certainly intended to be, allowing people to go to the local lumberyard, with limited amount of funds, at the time of inception, to get on the water, sharing and making family memories. Ceetainly improving the boat with the avaliable plywoods, is certainly a stated preference now, but rarely will these boat ever be a complete disaster if you do not spend 60 bucks a sheet plywood to do so. Rarely do folks know the difference in the beginning anyway. Heck the fish or the wind surely doesn't. And for the most part, the lasting memories will never be dimmed in the beginning. Someone thats in the business of building boats to supplement their income, or to progress into a thriving business, sepecially in the beginning, can use some of my comments of some self restraint, from commenting to folks with a dream and some bucks in their pockets. :wink: Heck if I wanted to build the Bolger Brick, I should be free to ask what would the any changes that I should make from thousands of other builders, freely, if made avaliable freely such as been done here. And if somone comes to me and says they want one, I say what color sir. Not every person will want a cs hull, you know. Thats my point and the way I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_StJohn Posted June 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 I am certainly not offended or dismayed by Ray's comments! All you guys have way more experience than I building boats. I truly value any comment from any of you guys. I started this project alone but, after only a couple of weeks on the Forum, I have absolutely abandoned that feeling!! I think it's important to consider Ray's comments into the mix with everyone else's. He obviously has some reasons for his comments that are valid from his perspective and should be considered. Personally, I chose this boat as a stepping stone to the learning process. Usually doing this requires the subject model to be some watered down, lifeless object that stands on its own merits for what it is - nothing more than a learning tool and little else. This is not the case with the Weekender - at least in my opinion. I get to learn the basics of boat building, experience the advice of subject matter experts along the way, and end up with a really cool looking vessel that I don't have to be embarrased of on the water. As someone said in this topic, "This won't be my last boat". I agree. However, I can't think of a better way to begin the evolutionary process than building the Weekender! Thanks, Ray, and everyone else for your comments which I hope other "newbies" will read which is why I posted in the first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adla Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Just to jump into the fray - I think Ray and Oyster have brought up an important controversy and because they are both long time forumites I doubt it will affect their future posts and feelings towards each other.... After lurking around boat building sites for OH say 5 or 6 years - it is plain to see that the weekender is not a boat that once built (unless it is Capn' Jakes) will likely make a museum or go down in history as one of the great designs. But, it has been featured as a new boat on the water in WB mag and a lot of people have built them and enjoyed them. It is my first boat and I have had every pennies worth of a good time in the last year (although it has only seen the water a handful of times)... see evidence: sailing with the Aloha and the Black Falcon..... lots of people modify the boat to suit their needs see more evidence: Steve caned his seats because the cockpit made more sense to him that way. I went with a tiller so I could get a better feel for sailing. I left out the shelves on the inside of the boat but compensated by reinforcing everywhere with fiberglass. I didn't think the harken blocks made that much difference until I was a Yuba and others don't have them -- I was wrong. My blocks are smoother and don't get hung up. Not only does the mast work better with the gaff jaws when it is rounded - I think you can get a way with making it a bit lighter than the plans call for. I planed mine down this spring and rounded it over again and it is much lighter and nicer - and still a solid piece of doug fir. Anyway - I think the weekender makes a great jumping off place for a first time builder. Not only do I have a great boat to mess around in - I have alot more skill for the next project. And - the best part is that there are a bunch of people in the SW with weekenders and we like to get together and sail....that really makes it worthwhile: a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMetzner Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 OH, It is always SOOOO fine to see group of small boats (if they're gaffer even better) beached somewhere. Great sight! Only thing better is being there! --John M Alaskan-in-Exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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