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Government - Ugg! - Don't build a weekender in UTAH


Phil Gowans

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I just found out that Utah has changed their boat registration from a value based to an aged based law. It is supposed to be Revenue Neutral. LOL. It is based on the age of the boat and the length. Also, this is now a fee not a tax so you can't write if off on income tax anymore.

I spent about $29 for boat property tax last year. The state has my boat registered as 19' long. That translates to $175 a year now, but only because it is 6 years old. If you try to register it new it will be $275 a year. I'm facing a 600% increase. It's almost enough to make me give up sailing.

This may be neutral overall, and for an expensive stinkpot it is probably a good deal. What about us on a low budget with a small homebuilt wood sailboat? I doubt I could sell the boat for much at all. To show how out of whack this is. I bought a van the same year as the boat for $35,000. The "Fee" for it last year was $80. I'm sure it is worth a lot more than my boat, but I've got to spend more than double to pay the property taxes for the boat.

Sometimes I think government is out to get me. :evil:

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Phil,

My suggestion is that you start contacting your state reps and also any boating groups and start some serious belly aching to them about votes at election time.

I hate any govt. that pulls this sort of crap and fight it all the time. Of course my family keeps mumbling something about windmills.... :lol:

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Hey, register my boats for me!!!

Seriously, though, I have written my legislators, senators, and the governer. I will look into signing petitions with any groups trying to do something about this. I cannot afford $500.00 a year to register two homemade boats. Kinda shuts down the hobbyist.

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remember that your taxes are going toward essential services such as police, fire, schools, road maintenance, providing income for cradle-to-grave welfare recipients, disability payments for drunks and drug addicts, education and medical expenses for illegal aliens, travel and lodging expenses for your govt officials "conferences" etc. You should be grateful to your govt for all they provide to you......assuming youre confident that there is no waste or corruption :wink: :roll:

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That sounds like a bad system to me. Check with the BoatUS state chapter to see if they are fighting it ... they are a pretty powerful lobbying organization, and often the Representatives at the state level just don't realize what the industry they are taxing is like. An exemption for boats valued under $5,000 would be a good starting place.

Also check to see if you have to register the boat under 16'. Remember the official length of the Weekender is 15' 9" according to the plans. That's an important number because in many states you don't have to register a boat under 16'.

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My suggestion is that you start contacting your state reps and also any boating groups and start some serious belly aching to them about votes at election time.

Yesterday I sent off an e-mail to both my State Rep and Senator. Believe it or not I've already heard from one and sent him more information.

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I would challenge the length rating.

The Saga continues (I haven't responded because this has taken so much of my time:

Yesterday I spoke to the Tax commission. They said that the law should not consider things added on to the boat in computing the length. For example swim platforms, ladders, removable motors, or similar "appurtenances". My removable bow sprit would probably be considered similar, likewise my kick up rudder. However the length is specified in my registration as 19.5'. The "expert" at the Tax commission said that it probably ought to be considered as the length of the bottom of the boat, and that I ought to get the DMV to change it. I called the DMV and they said they could change it at one of their offices. After waiting in line for over an hour they said that they didn't care where that length came from and even if I brought the boat down to them and had them measure it, they would not change the length on my registration. Their reasoning was the tax determinations were to be made by the County Assessor and that the Assessor should change the length.

I went to the County Assessor today and Kevin (don't know the last name) told me that he was expecting this problem, because no one on the hill had considered sailboats with this legislation. He further said that he didn't have the ability to change the length of the boat only the DMV can do that. He is checking with his supervisor as to what I should. He did admit that the length of the boat should be shorter than what I will be assessed at.

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move to nevada...NO STATE TAX and the boat registration is 40 bucks...and there is NO STATE TAX...a.

Wouldn't that be nice!

One of the arguments that has been made here is that Idaho has an aged based fee for years on their boats. I looked at their fees and they charge $12 for a 12' boat and $2/foot after that for all boats regardless of age. I would have to pay $26 at this rate.

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Hey' date=' register my boats for me!!!

Seriously, though, I have written my legislators, senators, and the governer. I will look into signing petitions with any groups trying to do something about this. I cannot afford $500.00 a year to register two homemade boats. Kinda shuts down the hobbyist.[/quote']

Sorry Brit, I've got more bad news for you. The rate for a new boat is higher. Actually $275 a year. I feel sorry for you and Steve who will be paying that rate for at least 3 years before it will drop.

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Hey' date=' Phil, is Jim Gowans any relation?[/quote']

Is that the red haired Jim that works at the Scout Council? All Gowans in Utah are relatives. You see I come from Hugh Sidley (of Tooele) who came here in 1860 and we're all related. I don't know many personally though.

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That sounds like a bad system to me. Check with the BoatUS state chapter to see if they are fighting it ... they are a pretty powerful lobbying organization' date=' and often the Representatives at the state level just don't realize what the industry they are taxing is like. An exemption for boats valued under $5,000 would be a good starting place.[/quote']

I doubt that BoatUS will want to be involved. You see I think the majority of boaters in Utah will be happy about this. I'll quote a section from my letter to my rep here:

In summary: I believe what in effect has happened here is that there has been a effort to shift the tax burden from the rich to the poor. At least that is the what is happening here. All boats of the same length are considered to be taxed at the same value. I fit into the category of a 19-23' boat. All boats even my plywood homebuilt boat will be taxed at the same rate as a ski boat that has a $15,000 motor in it. They are probably very happy to have a $40,000 boat valued in with my $1000 boat and pay the same fee.

To show how absurd this whole thing can become. I considered building the Bolger Light Schooner, a 30' plywood boat that can probably be built for under $2000. According to your tax rates I would have to pay $700 a year to register it. Additionally, if I were to add something to my boat to make it over 31', for instance a 12' dowel or something, then I would qualify for a value based taxation. This would be 1.5% times $1000 = $15 for my registration.

This law is not equitable and there needs to be a some exceptions made to allow people to have cheap boats without being hit with high taxes. I know other boatbuilders that are very upset with this law. You see, these new builders are going to have to pay nearly $300 a year in registration. I don't know why sailboats are considered in with power boats at all. I know states (like Nevada) that don't have any taxes on boats. How does Idaho get by without taxing their people to death?

You are in a position where can change this law. Please do so before my hobby is taxed out of existence. You see at the existing tax rate it isn't worth it for me to register the boat, and nobody in their right mind in Utah would consider buying it from me, because they wouldn't want to register it either.

This kind of sums up my feelings. I've even considered calling the media together and some friends and douse ALOHA with gas and give her a firey death on the Great Salt Lake. I hope it doesn't come to that.

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Might not be the way you'd want to do it Phil but what if you reported the boat destroyed and a month later went in to register your "new" sail boat with a 12'LWL?

I've considered that. It would mean getting a new HIN and that might create trouble. I could also just sail it where I won't run into the Water Police - Like on the Great Salt Lake and just pay the tickets - probably cheaper than registering.

There's also using my brother-in laws address and registering the boat in Idaho. You wouldn't believe how many people here in Utah do that with their cars. I just have this hangup about doing something unethical (I know it's my problem and I'm trying to deal with it.)

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For all the national debt, don't you kind of wonder were all the money went.

Funny how they measured your boat, never heard of them going from anywhere then the length at the water line. But if they can make some more money I'm sure that they will do it. Just don't tell them here in Michigan, the governor would jump at the chance. I don't see many water cops, but some coastguard. That only when you come in from the lake. It used to be if you didn't have a motor on the boat then you didn't need to register it but like you said going into other states is a problem. Kind of like taxation with out representation, but the repersentives are the ones taxing us. Abut all you can do is lobby with allot of other boaters and make them sweat, have your wife go. lol

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Guest slammed

Hello Phil, Brit sent me a link to this forum. i'm in the same boat you are in " a weekender that is" there has got to be a way to get this fixed. I'm going to bring this up to some other friends of mine, we are members of the Utah sailing association. we all have wind powered boats. we were just discussing the registration and other problems concerning the treatment of sailors in Utah. It sounds like the other states are doing the same. Sailing should be encouraged just as alternative fuels in cars. I'm on your side, thats at least 3 for change, I'm sure there are more. Randy

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I actually looked into that. Any law enforcement officer can issue a ticket. But the boat has to be on the water inorder to be an infraction. The standard fees for tickets are suggested to be $75, but each court can vary from that if they want. I could be ticked twice without going over the tax, so that sounds like the cheapest option. This is because I don't think I have to worry about being ticked by anybody except the Utah State Park officers. There are many places where you don't see them. Either small municipal lakes, the Great Salt Lake where they really only do search and rescue or I can use parts of the lakes where they don't frequent. At the State parks I would have to be cautious, but if they notice no registration on my way into the park, I wouldn't have commited an offence until I was on the water.

This sort of attitude will certainly lower the amount of tax received by those who are going to be paying considerably more than before. However, I think a lot of the expensive ski boats (and that's the majority of boats in Utah), will be paying less. Overall, I think Utah will be collecting a lot less than before this change in the law.

My biggest concern is that the law states that my boat can be seised if in noncompliance.

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