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Sloppy Seamanship


CLIPPER

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Being retired , I'm out on the water often. I see lots of sloppy seamanship. :cry: My favorite or rather most noticeable is people ( I won't dare call then sailors or boatmen) still have their fenders dangling over the side when under way in both power and sail boats.

Any body else see other examples of "sloppy seamanship" ?

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Right of way? What right of way......

I'm thinking licenses should *almost* be mandatory for powerboaters, and definately mandatory for PWC's. Most, not all, but most (at least from what I've seen) have no clue as to who gives way to whom, except that "I go faster - you move".

Of course licenses have not prevented the plethora of crappy drivers out on the roads these days...

I attended a company picnic @ Lake Tahoe over the weekend, and one of the activities was a waverunner ride. I had a slot but gave it up cause' I had to take the kids home. Turns out the guy who had the slot before mine was on it with his two kids, and ran head-on into a boat. I don't know the specifics (did he freeze? not pay attention? what?) but he's in intensive care; kids are ok. The worse thing - totally preventable. And I bet there's no waverunner @ next year's picnic.....

Peace,

Roland

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Being retired ' date=' I'm out on the water often. I see lots of sloppy seamanship. :cry: My favorite or rather most noticeable is people ( I won't dare call then sailors or boatmen) still have their fenders dangling over the side when under way in both power and sail boats.

Any body else see other examples of "sloppy seamanship" ?[/quote']

I have often wondered why it is considered poor seamanship to have a fender or two hanging over the side, unless it is dragging in the water or in danger of fouling something. Seems a foolish thing and I have heard it multiple times from all over the boating community. Why do you think it is poor seamanship? :?: :)

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"Why no fenders over the side?"

A few reasons: It looks bad, it shows that you're not tending to all the little details (similar to table manners; they may seem unnecessary, but they show whether a person is sloppy or tidy and paying attention to details). When you're sailing it's an unwarranted drag too (not much, but certainly not somethingyou'd want when racing.)

Mostly it's just bad form.

As to other sloppy things, there's always the jib halyard tension problem one sees a fair amount. A really bad right-of-way problem we used to see probably a couple of times a month in San Diego (and which probably happens in any big port) was a sailboat trying to assert their "rights" in relation to a large ship (Destroyer, freighter, etc.) Big ships may be powered, but they're also [/i]burdened vessels which means they have the r-o-w.

Mike

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"Why no fenders over the side?"

A few reasons: It looks bad' date=' it shows that you're not tending to all the little details (similar to table manners; they may [i']seem[/i] unnecessary, but they show whether a person is sloppy or tidy and paying attention to details). When you're sailing it's an unwarranted drag too (not much, but certainly not somethingyou'd want when racing.)

Mostly it's just bad form.

Mike[/i]

I guess it just seems silly to me. I have spent many years in the Navy, and grew up on and around boats, and still am. Some things make good sense, some do not. Loose gear and lines, blocked passageways and hatches, those things drive me nuts. Often while moving about the harbor or on short, quick sails, especially when single handling, I will leave a fender or two over the side above the water....no dragging as that is bad form and poor seamanship. I will take issue with the generality that a fender over the side is bad seamanship. It really depends on the boat and the situation. Having fenders rolling around on the deck, or anything else.....that is bad seamanship. Tangled lines....bad seamanship. Etc.

You mentioned sailboats trying to assert right of way with burdened vessels.....a very good example of bad seamanship and downright stupidity. The Navy frigate I was on would routinely struggle with lobster boaters and their pots when going in and out of Newport. We could not manuever to avoid them, the idiots were yelling about their traps that they placed in the channel.....duh. I often wished we would have sank a few of them...sort of a Darwin award thing..... :lol:

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The reason fenders over the side is bad seamanship is that they spin' date=' sometimes breaking the line.[/quote']

Spin breaking the line? :lol: That would be bad line to start with I think. I tie both ends of my fenders which hang from the life line when I use them. There is no spinning when "proper" seamanship is used. If I get into real weather, or go out longer than an hour or two, I secure loose things like fenders and store them below deck. I am a fanatic about not having loose items laying around that are not going to be needed soon. My family has other names for my attitude :lol: I have weathered some really rough water and storms and have had some things engraved in my soul and scars on my body. Bet I am not alone with that either.

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I have seen enough fenders go over the side due to parted lines in 20 years as master of tugs and ferries to know that they can spin and break a good line. Perhaps not a 4" kicker boat fender, but I gaurantee that a number of large fenders were lost that way off the Victoria Clipper (see left) in the 7 years I was on her due to forgetful deckhands and unobservant mates. Hell I've forgotten a few myself over the years :-)

On the ocean tugs we normally unstrung the truck tires hung along the sheer and stowed them belowdecks prior to leaving protected waters or the seas would break the chains and carry the fendering away.

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Not poor seamanship but bad form nontheless. Like driving at 45 mph in the high speed lane, walking around with your shoes untied and laces flipping around, sailing with huge scallops in the jib luff, 2" of grass and barnicles on the waterline, etc., etc. If it's not a workboat and just out for a sunday sail with fenders hanging over the side, I certainly have a bad impression and tend to give the boat a wider berth than a shipshape one.

It ain't the biggest social error, but it's an indication that all things MAY not be handled the best on that boat.

On the other hand, if the skipper really needs the fenders to be hanging over the side when under sail, then I'm sure to give him a cable or two extra space.

NO offence intended but that is my honest feeling.

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Tom,

Some attitudes are funny :lol: . Flopping shoe laces are trip hazards. Driving 45 in the high speed lane is both rude and dangerous. A dirty hull is a sign of lack of boat maintenance. Scallops in the jib luff would be a sign of poor seamanship. Fenders over the rail above the water line are nothing to worry about. I think it is more to do with prejudice than seamanship, but if you give me more steerage room as a result, heck I may never take them off now..... :lol::lol:

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Almost posted on this subject a few weeks ago. I'll try not to turn it in to a long rant, and I have no wish to offend anyone.

I don't really care if you drag your fenders, if your jib set is perfectly, or if the flag you fly is the appropriate size for the length of your boat. (What is it? One inch per foot, or something?) I guess this stuff is important when you're sitting at the bar in the yacht club, but not to me.

I'm a Weekend Warrior. Not an off-shore cruiser, or a yacht club snob.

All I ask for is a little common courtesy. Know and follow the few basic rules of right of way. That way, we can each anticipate what the other guy is going to do.

It can get really crowded on the water here. You learn what to beware of.

You start to categorize your fellow boaters.

-Surprisingly, the jet skis aren't that bad. At least the potential for damage is limited.

-The muscle boat folks, although loud, usually behave themselves.

-The sportsman type are so used to dealing with regulations of size and bag limits, that rule of right of way, and no wake zones, come naturally. (OK. Sure, there's going to be some yahoos in each category, but I humbly submit myself as a sportsman.)

-The worst?...

When I see one of those flashy, European styled mega-yachts coming my way, I run for cover.

As a former US president's son once showed us, You can afford the plane, but that doesn't qualify you as a pilot.

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I think the reason we point and laugh at the sailor who has fenders hanging well after he's left the dock is because ... it is an easy mistake to make (and be honest, you have done it, haven't you?)

Now, almost falling in head first trying to get the outboard to kick up, THAT's poor seamanship! Not that I've ever seen that happen, of course.

Trying to release the main sheet during a short period of sheer terror, when the boat heels so far the ports are awash, and the main remains right where it is ... and as you scramble to get up on the side decks you realize you have been sitting on the main sheet .... THAT's poor seamanship. Just speaking hypothetically, of course.

Tacking out the harbor channel, then getting into kelp, right in the mouth of the harbor where the swells come in, and ending up on the rocks ... THAT's poor seamanship. If that kind of thing ever happened.

Releasing the rudder, so it floats up, when you are just 2 feet way from the dock .... and thinking that puny 3.5 hp outboard prop is going to be able to keep your boat from drifting into that $42,000 powerboat ... THAT's poor seamanship. Assuming you could prove it (and no fair talking to my wife, guys).

Having those four things happen on the same day, well, we won't talk about that. You do end up buying a bigger boat, so perhaps its OK.

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I have to agree with Tom. Personally' date=' I think it just plain looks sloppy. I believe the term is "lubberly" i.e. Not seamanly.[/quote']

This has finally arrived at my point. Fenders over the side have nothing to do with seamanship, but everything to do with our prejudices/opinions and "appearances". Sort of the same reasons why men wear ties. They have no real function except as leashes or napkins as far as I know. I think it is important to understand the difference between seamanship and commonly held opinions. I am not saying everyone is wrong, but consensus often is not based on anything other than prejudice. Maybe the term "group think"? This has been an interesting discussion and I wish to thank all of you for sharing your opinions. Who knows, maybe when I finally grow up I will put my fenders away even when just scooting around the harbor? (and wear ties to church again too) :)

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Frank,

You are FUNNY....I am rolling on the floor. We all have had those hypothetical situations....."I read about it in a book"....."I smoked pot but did not inhale".....

Bet we could all write for hours describing attempts at docking alone. There are some of the marinas around here that I keep a low profile while visiting in hopes no one remembers my docking adventures....anyway there are always new victims aren't there?

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Lubberly might be the best term for fenders hanging over the side.

Most of us like to think of our boats as beautiful. I've had lots of people take photo's of mine. Would you like to have a picture of your boat sailing along with a bone in her teeth and the fenders trailing along on either side ? :wink:

Besides I still think that for most people, (except those who have posted here :wink: ) that it's a sign of a careless skipper. Not paying attention to details. Soorner or later in attention catches up with you. :oops:

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Lubberly might be the best term for fenders hanging over the side.

Most of us like to think of our boats as beautiful. I've had lots of people take photo's of mine. Would you like to have a picture of your boat sailing along with a bone in her teeth and the fenders trailing along on either side ? :wink:

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Mine would be properely stowed if my boat was sailing in that manner, as would all the gear on my boat. Heck, I even make non-crew go below and tie themselves down out of the way.

:lol:

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I for one skipper have left a fender or two over the side in the wet of the moment, so to speak while trying to get off a dock in heavy winds. I feel worrying about a fender is at the bottom of my list.

However, I've listened to enough friendly teasing in the past that I generally don't forget anymore and get them stowed below the benches.

There is not enough room for my big feet and a fender on deck :roll: that's for sure.

The other day I went sailing, saw another sail boat on the water, so I cruised over to say Ahoy. Three yacht club members were aboard, having a good time, infact they were even friendly. :wink: These guys are not inexperienced sailors, despite my one-up-manship, they are good people.

Our newest fleet member Jeromy is a member of their club and sails Big Lake Alaska. They were familiar with the Weekender, but had never seen a Battleship Vacationer before. :lol:

Howdies were exchanged, information about my Vacationer's design was yelled across and then they made a comment about my furler. :shock: Well I had noticed their brand new fancy furler :oops: and mine does look a little home made.

Well of coarse I had to show them, the pic taken is of me saying byby :lol: I must have increased my speed a couple of knots the moment the sail unfurled.

Notice the fender most forward, now be nice, but Lord Nelson as my witness, I believe that's a PFD, would that be Lubberly?

Big%20lake%20yacht%20club.JPG?dc=4675487365303660257

P.S. I did sail back to see if they noticed the shite eaten grin on my face.

A growly voiced skipper commented, "Now, I'm impressed, really impressed."

To each his own, some folks just don't get worked up over the little things. However, when someone risks my boat, crew or theirs, I generally tell them so. One of the advantages of being opinionated :twisted:

Over%20taking.JPG?dc=4675487362856335397

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