Yellowtail Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 G'day all, My first post here so please don't torpedo me if I'm about to ask a commonly discussed question - I couldn't find it with a search. I'm building a David Payne Yellowtail - 14', plywood clinker, round bilge, sailing boat. Here's a couple of piccies of her as she stands now. Same as me avatar - I'll keep changing the avatar as the boat grows (ha!) And another. I love this view. When I say I'm builder her ... Last year, I did a boat building course at TAFE. About 20 of us built two of these and I bought one - cost me the cost of the materials and I get enought timber to finish her. Not a bad deal and because of the way I operated during the course, I've worked on darned near every stick of wood in her anyway. Lots more to do and that's not my workshop. Those photos were taken at TAFE. At home I have a single car garage with carport in front - plus two other boats and three cars to house with no way of getting any of them into the back yard. But my question. I can either do her with a gaff rig or a gunter. Both with a jib. Both with the same mast step. Just different mains. Any thoughts on which is the better choice? Cheers Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Pennington Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Nice Richard! My chose would be Gaff rigged of coarse, I like the way I can spill wind in heavy weather and I like the looks. With your round hull you might appreciate that. Very salty looking boat, I want one 8) However the Gunter rig may be easier to deal with, depends on wether you like more than one halyard :roll: I don't suppose that there is a plan package for that boat is there? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted March 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Nice Richard!My chose would be Gaff rigged of coarse' date=' I like the way I can spill wind in heavy weather and I like the looks. With your round hull you might appreciate that. Very salty looking boat, I want one 8) However the Gunter rig may be easier to deal with, depends on wether you like more than one halyard :roll: I don't suppose that there is a plan package for that boat is there? Mike[/quote'] They are a nice looking boat, based on a 1930's Sydney Harbour work boat apparently. Mine'll have a small coach house which, although looking a bit dicky, will provide some protection for small kids (I got three) and will keep it a lot drier (very choppy water here). Could you explain your reasons for the gaff rig a bit more please? I'm pretty much a muggins at this sailing game and still struggling to understand what's happening most of the time. As for the plans package. Yep, I get the full package, timber and some epoxy, all at TAFE prices (read 'govt discount'). I don't just get a pile of wood either - I can use TAFE's tools to machine it to the right dimensions. So it's a pretty good deal. The beauty of this boat was that it was built straight with no major stuff ups, unlike a lot of the student built boats. This one was adopted by a couple of carpenters and it showed in the building. However, there are the broken off screws and the extra epoxy hiding the bits that didn't fit, so it's got that nice home built (and stuffed up) feel about it. Cheers Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 I won't attempt to answer you question about sail types but I wanted to say that is a beautiful boat! I am a sucker for clinker boats of any kind! Here is my current boat. Sea Skiff I love lapstrake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 What does TAFE stand for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannah Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Yellowtail, perchance are you in OZ? I ask in order to know which dialect to plumb for some of your vocab. :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor3356 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 I am just starting to build a Amphora with my boys and have decide to make it a sailing dinghy. With it being a small boat and the fact that the boom would be so close to head height I think Gunter rigging would work the best. I don't know if you could spill more air with it being Gaff rigged, but with kids the boom gets its name real easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 ..... but with kids the boom gets its name real easily. I heard the name came from the sound it made when it hit your head. If thats so them with aluminum booms we need to rename them "Clunks". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted March 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 In answer to Jo and Aaron - yes, I'm an Aussie, as is the designer, David Payne. TAFE - Technical and Further Eductation - the tradesman's university system here. Funny, I thought they used the same acronym in America which is why I didn't bother to expand it in my post. Sorry 'bout that. On the boom, it looks like it'll be a decent height above everyone. With the coach house, I'll be able to get the kids out of the way before tacking or gybing ... assuming they happen deliberately of course. Richard[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Pennington Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 If I am not mistaken a Gunter rig is a triangular sail but with a swivel in the mast about half way up, great for going under low bridges. I wasn't aware Gunter's were souly a loose footed mainsail, the one I saw had a boom. I am not Paul, of Ulta Sail, so I won't even attempt to say which rig is better. A gaff rig has more sail area for the same hight of mast. This is a real general pro and con, of coarse. Some folks think Marconi rigged (triangular sail) are faster and point up wind better. Some folks think gaff rigged boats are faster going down wind. But all this depends on the actual boat, it would be interesting to compare the sail rigs on the same boat. But then one type of boat might favor one rig over the other. Your boat is going to be fast, no mater what. You won't need a lot of sail. With small kids and 14 feet of boat you may be beter off with a marconi rig. Less set up time and the round hull will be more stabler with less top rigging, in my opinion. This boat belongs to a friend of mine, notice the boom is only low at the end. For the life of me I can't remember what this kind of rig is called. Bermuda? Very easy to use and set up. Of coarse you would only need one mast. Much more friendlier on the heads of young ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Mike- those are Sprit booms. Not sprit sails or sprits, but sprit booms. The sails used to be called "jib- headed" or "marconi" Where the sprit boom is attached to the mast is called a "snotter" and it's adjustable for foot and leech tension. With sprit booms you do not need a vang since that rig is self vanging. Also reduces sheet loading measurably. That's the same rig I have on my 18 foot cat ketch sharpie (just like the one in your picture). We like it a lot. When we converted from regular booms to sprit booms we were able to reduce the sheeting by one part- there's that much less load. One of the big advantages of a gunter is that on most of them all the spars are short enough to stow in the boat. With a cabin on the boat, that might be a moot point. A gunter does give you a pretty close approximation of a jib headed sail though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 If you are thinking about a gunter rig I would suggest looking at the sliding gunter. It is much easier to reef. When rasied the topmast is attached to a sliding iron then the topmast is rasied by a halyard. Below the topmast the sail is attached with hast hoops and the sail is laced to the topmast. To reef the halyard is eased and the topmast lower straight down the reef is put in and then the halyard is made tought. Very easy and quick. Here is a basic drawing of the sliding gunter. The folding gunter is very hard to reef and the two rigs are the same except for the sliding irons on the sliding gunter. I would recommend the sliding gunter over the folding gunter for ease of use. When making the sail a jog is made in the luff where the topmast begins when the sail is raised. this makes for a very nice clean look to the luff. There are other small details your sail maker can go over with you about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boscarhyn Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 Now that's what I call a boat. She's gorgeous :!: I tried to design - and have successfully built - something similar myself, and I'm quite proud of the result[/img] [attachment over 4 years old deleted by admin] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boscarhyn Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 Haven't got the hang of this posting game, yet. My last message got itself submitted before I'd finished... I was going to add, have you thought of lug rig? No stays, highly efficient, yet low tech and very eye-catching. My Alice-Mary has a standing-lug on the mainmast and a dipping lug on the fore - pix to follow when I've scanned them. She sails like a witch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Pennington Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 Okay David, it is not that easy! :roll: Posting only one picture, shame on you. You can get a front and side shot at the cop shop even these days. No fare! :cry: Is that a motor well? Do you have a pic with your rigging up? How is the hull put together? Very nice boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boscarhyn Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 You wanted more pix, Mike? Here's one of A-M with her sails up and a little montage of rigging details. I'm often asked, how difficult is the dipping lug to manage? Answer: easier than a conventional, overlapping genoa. It's sheeted in the same way as a normal headsail, with single part sheets leading to cleats or winches (camcleats in A-M's case - the sails are only 60 sq. ft. each) but the inactive sheet leads forward along the lee side of the sail, round the luff and back to its cleat. To go about, you just cast off the active sheet and haul on the inactive one which pulls the clew and whole sail round the luff, flipping the yard across as it goes - if you get the timing right: get it wrong and there's an embarrassing snarl-up :oops: Yes, that's an engine well. I use a Minn Kota Endura 46 electric outboard, with 150 Ah of power in 2 batteries under the forward thwart - good as ballast. Gives me about 4 hours range at full chat. The Endura's actually a freshwater model, not warranted for marine use, but I 'marinised' it with loads of petroleum jelly, hose it down with fresh water after every use, and it keeps on working o.k. The hull is epoxy/ply lapstrake, same as Richard's lovely-looking yellowtail. Super construction method, once you've got the plank shapes worked out: just slap 'em together and fill all the gaps with goo. [attachment over 4 years old deleted by admin] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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