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Curlew Build - keel shape.


SteveH

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So I've got my (4) brackets all spaced out, dimensions triple checked and have laid the keel stringer in the slot however, I just want to confirm the shape of it before I go too much further. When I press the keel down into the bottom of the slot at bracket 7'9" it makes a fair curve as you would expect but it raises up about 10mm (1/2") at bracket 2'8". I then have to press down on that aft bracket to get it to sit on all four brackets. Does that make sense? If not I can post photo's tomorrow.

 

Is this normal - does the keel sweep back down a bit aft? Would be good to see a table of offsets for the whole boat so that I can cross check everything (thought that would have been included on the plans?).

 

cheers

Steve

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I have one other slight concern at the moment and that is the 7' frame - with gunwales and bottom stringers touching all other frames and making a fair curve they miss the 7' frame at all 4 points by about 1/2". I can pull it in  but it doesn't seem right - upsets the fair curve through the mid section of the boat. The frame s in the right spot - checked and rechecked and checked again.

 

Once again - any other current curlew builders find this?

DSCF1243.jpg

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Something doesn't look right. It appears that the keel is curving downward and it curve upward from the center on both ends. If that is what it is doing something is not right. Also looks like the Gunwales are curving down too.  I will check the plans for anything obvious tomorrow. But makes me wonder if the brackets are in the wrong order.

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33 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

Something doesn't look right. It appears that the keel is curving downward and it curve upward from the center on both ends. 

 

That's exactly what it's doing - that's what I tried to explain in the first post :) There's something weird/not right with frame 7' too... just about to post a photo.

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So with the bottom coaming laid in where I think it goes(?) frame 7' doesn't even come close to touching it. The plans said cut oversize which I have but they weren't very specific about which way to cut them (oversize). I wouldn't like to pull the stringers/gunwales in here (even though I can) as it pulls everything out of fair  and just doesn't look/feel right. I won't be going any further until we nut this out. I will recheck all my measurements.... again (converting from imperial to metric always has the chance of a cock-up).

 

Any chance of viewing the plans/drawing/offsets?

DSCF1244.jpg

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How long ago did you order plans?  I am wondering if this is old set and maybe this issue was corrected because I just checked the brackets and I don't see a problem.  2'8" should be taller than 4' 4".

 

Bottom of the slot of 2' 8*' should be 5 inches high. 
4' 4.5" should be 4 7/8" high.

 

Going to look in the other issue now.

 

EDIT.  Looks like frame 7' 0" is wrong.  There are a couple of options. 

  • I am going to correct the plans and I can email you that frame if you want to build a new one.
  • I can draw up an 'L'' Shaped arm of the proper shape that you can glue and screw onto the frame so you don't have to cut a whole new frame. I did this for a while in case you ind it sags over time you can add these latter if wanted. It is the easiest solution. Then I just decided to include it.
  • You can trim off the arms. Originally it wasn't there. Then I  built a boat  for myself using a plywood coaming and over time it started to sag a little and I decided to add these. Not all plywood will do that but it's hard to know which will and want.

 

Just let me know which way you want go. I would suggest making the L brackets and adding them if you find you need them. It depends on how  you sit in the boat but I find these arms rest on my leg sometimes,

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7 hours ago, Kudzu said:

I am wondering if this is old set and maybe this issue was corrected because I just checked the brackets and I don't see a problem.  2'8" should be taller than 4' 4".

 

Bottom of the slot of 2' 8*' should be 5 inches high. 
4' 4.5" should be 4 7/8" high.

 

 

Ok I can confirm the bottom of the step in my brackets are:

 

2'8"..............5"

4' 4.5"..........4 7/8"

7'9"..............4.06"

11'6"............is unmarked on the plan but I measure it at 120mm

 

If those two forward ones are correct then I guess that's just the way it is? It would be really handy to see a high res profile pic of the curlew???

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7 hours ago, Kudzu said:

EDIT.  Looks like frame 7' 0" is wrong.  There are a couple of options. 

  • I am going to correct the plans and I can email you that frame if you want to build a new one.
  • I can draw up an 'L'' Shaped arm of the proper shape that you can glue and screw onto the frame so you don't have to cut a whole new frame. I did this for a while in case you ind it sags over time you can add these latter if wanted. It is the easiest solution. Then I just decided to include it.
  • You can trim off the arms. Originally it wasn't there. Then I  built a boat  for myself using a plywood coaming and over time it started to sag a little and I decided to add these. Not all plywood will do that but it's hard to know which will and want.

 

Just let me know which way you want go. I would suggest making the L brackets and adding them if you find you need them. It depends on how  you sit in the boat but I find these arms rest on my leg sometimes,

 

Firstly, how long has the 7' frame been "wrong" for and why am I the only one to notice it?

 

Secondly it's not so much the misalignment of the top pieces that are supposed to mate with the coaming (I can fix that myself) it's more the fact that the whole frame is not wide enough (by about 1 inch). As I alluded to before I could pull the stringers and gunwales in but I don't want to do that - it would look like a wineglass. Again - why has no one else  noticed this? 

 

You could send me the new plan if it incorporates the new width (you have my email). Otherwise I will just fabricate a new frame myself by cutting this one in the centre and widening it with scraps and epoxy. Not ideal as it's the only visible frame and will look a bit average and if that doesn't work I'm not looking forward to buying a whole new sheet of 1/2" marine ply to cut one frame.

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Hi Steve,

I'd say that the frame has been "wrong" since at least 2015.  That's when I ordered my Curlew plans and I have the same problems.  I noticed the problem with the brackets and discussed it with Jeff at the time (I'm trying to find my old emails to remember the details) and we worked out the problem.

 

I didn't notice the issue with the frame at 7' until after I had lashed the entire boat together.  It's been hanging from the ceiling of my garage for the past 2 years.  I haven't skinned it yet because I don't like the "wineglass" shape of the hull in that area and wasn't sure what I was going to do about it.  I wasn't even sure it wasn't supposed to look like that until I saw your post.

 

As for why this hasn't come up before, I can only assume that either people have been too unsure to ask (like myself) or they haven't noticed or most people have built their Curlews from the lofting tables in Jeff's book instead of from the paper plans?

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Thanks very much for the info Dave - really appreciate it. Was beginning to think I was going mad and self doubt was creeping in but I've lost count of how many times I've  measured everything and eyed up the lines and they just don't look right. I've built a few small boats/kayaks/SUP's etc before so I have half an idea on what's going on haha.

 

I will wait till Jeff comes back with some input but I think I'll end up widening frame 7 and I might looking at putting a fair curve back into the keel (by altering the bracket steps slightly). I know Jeff says and alteration to his plans voids all warranty and support but I would rather build a boat that "looks" right.

 

We'll wait for Jeff's input but if you haven't skinned it you might be able to let frame 7 go and remanufacture one to slip in?

 

Anyway thanks very much for taking the time to reply.  

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I will have the time tomorrow to dig into the plans. I want to go through the whole boat and look at everything. It's really hard to know what is going on by just photos. There is no way to eliminate most of the possibilities but knowing that someone else had the problem really helps.  This was my first design, I have learned a lot since then so it probably time to go through it really closely. I am sure there are things I can improve.

 

Dave, once I get this sorted I can send you the corrections. It would be easy to replace a frame if that is the problem.

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Jeff, that would be great. I'd love to get a corrected frame drawing once you get it straightened out. Thanks!

 

Steve, did you have any problems with the frame at 11'6"?  On my plans we found that the notches were cut about a 1/2" too shallow.  I've attached the email trail that Jeff and I had back in July of '15.  I figure maybe it's a good idea to post this as a reference for others who may run into similar problems.  I should have had this conversation with Jeff on the Forum so that it would have been here for your reference.

 

Anyway, concerning the keel issue, as you can see from the emails below, I ended up switching the 2'8" and 4'4.5" brackets.  But that still didn't completely solve the problem so I attached the frames at the gunwales and let the keel "float" in the bracket.  The keel ended up being about 3/4" above the bottom of the notch of the 4'4.5" bracket (which is actually in the 2'8" location!).  See the picture.

 

EMAIL correspondence from 7/15:

Always amazes me at how a mistake can be there for years and not one catches it.  On frame 11'6" the notch is to small.  It need to be 1/2" deeper. You can just easily mark that and cut it. 

I can not find all the files for the Curlew so I don't have offsets for this one and the ones in the book wouldn't necessarly match this one. Plans are newer than the book.

 

Jeff Horton 
Kudzu Craft skin boats 
www.kudzucraft.com 
Ask your questions on our forum 

On 7/16/2015 8:51 AM    wrote:

Jeff,

I hate to be a pain...

I switched the location of the 2'8" and 4'4.5" brackets. Something still doesn't look right. The keel really seems to be too "flat" back there and it doesn't look like the gunwales are going to fit in the notches in the last 2 frames (stern). Do you know what the distance should be from the top of the strongback to the bottom of the keel at the 1' frame position?  Sorry, I don't have your book, so I don't have the offsets, I just have the plans to work from.

 

Also, frame 11'6" just doesn't "look right". I think the gunwale notches are too small. I can't seem to get a "fair" curve in the gunwales from frame 10' to frame 13' with frame 11'6" looking like it does. Can you check the notches of frame 11'6" on the plan please? 

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

---- Kudzu Craft <jeff@kudzucraft.com> wrote:

No 11 oz at the moment. But working on a new supplier.

 

Jeff Horton

Kudzu Craft skin boats

www.kudzucraft.com <http://kudzucraft.com/>

Ask your questions on our forum

<http://messing-about.com/forums/forum/19-kudzu-craft-forum/>

 

On 7/15/2015 5:38 PM, wrote:

Thanks Jeff.  I'll switch the position of the 2'8" and 4'4.5" brackets.

 

Different topic. Any update on 11.6oz fabric availability? I'm assuming I'll need ~16ft for the Curlew. It looks like you only have 10ft left in the store.

 

Thanks again.

Dave

 

 

---- Kudzu Craft <jeff@kudzucraft.com> wrote:

I should have taken the time to go back and double check rather than

looking in the book.  I had forgotten these two are a little different

from each other.

 

So, just reverse the brakets, they are labeled wrong.  I am pretty sure

I remember this came up once before but for some reason the plans didn't

get changed but I am fixing this today.

 

Jeff Horton

Kudzu Craft skin boats

www.kudzucraft.com <http://kudzucraft.com/>

Ask your questions on our forum

<http://messing-about.com/forums/forum/19-kudzu-craft-forum/>

 

On 7/15/2015 1:01 PM, wrote:

Hi Jeff,

 

Thank you for the quick response! That bracket being at 8'2" makes more sense form a keel shape standpoint.  However, it raises a couple of other questions (sorry).  There already is a bracket at 7'9" so the 8'2" is only 3" away. Also, the frame at the 8'2" location is the one without a bottom (clearance for your calves while paddling) so there's no way to attach the frame to the bracket (I believe).  Should I just not use that bracket or does it still perform a necessary function?  I only ask because I'm using 2x4s to hold my brackets. I'll have to rip the 2x4 down to less than 3" in order to fit it in behind the 7'9" bracket.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

---- Kudzu Craft <jeff@kudzucraft.com> wrote:

Found the problem, that is not 2' 8" but  8'-2"!  The numbers got

reversed so just relocate the bracket to the proper location.  I changed

the plans to reflect that.

 

Thanks for catching that too!

 

Jeff Horton

Kudzu Craft skin boats

www.kudzucraft.com <http://kudzucraft.com/>

Ask your questions on our forum

<http://messing-about.com/forums/forum/19-kudzu-craft-forum/>

 

On 7/15/2015 7:17 AM, wrote:

Hi Jeff,

 

I'm in the process of assembling my Curlew (ordered the plans back in March) and I have a question about the brackets.  I think that the brackets at the 2'8" and 4'4.5" locations have been switched?  The 2'8" bracket is deeper than the 4'4.5" bracket.  This ends up giving the keel stringer an "s" shape rather than smooth concave shape.  The measurement from the bottom of the bracket to the bottom of the slot on the 2'8" bracket is 4.88".  The same measurement on the 4'4.5" bracket is 4.99".  I've attached a couple of pictures of the brackets.

 

I'm assuming the brackets are just mis-labelled and I should switch them?

 

Thanks,

Dave

IMG_20150719_132845_908.jpg

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