Jump to content
Panda FREE Antivirus for Personal Use (affiliate link)
greendane

Core Sound 17 keel maintenance

Recommended Posts

Chick Ludwig    111
17 hours ago, Walt S. said:

Greendane,

 

I made a fairing board out of 1/8" plywood about 22" long and 3" wide.  I epoxied on drawer handles, though dowel sections would work just fine as handles and be cheaper.  You can cut 3" sander belts and tack them to your fairing board using 3M 77 spray adhesive.  Get a wide plastic putty knife for fairing that section once you've sanded it down. You make putty out of epoxy thickened significantly with microballoons.  

 

 

 

Micro balloon or Q-cell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hirilonde    171
On 3/28/2017 at 2:16 PM, Walt S. said:

Greendane,

 

I made a fairing board out of 1/8" plywood about 22" long and 3" wide.  I epoxied on drawer handles, though dowel sections would work just fine as handles and be cheaper.  You can cut 3" sander belts and tack them to your fairing board using 3M 77 spray adhesive.  Get a wide plastic putty knife for fairing that section once you've sanded it down. You make putty out of epoxy thickened significantly with microballoons.  

 

 

 

 

I use PSA rolls for everything hand sanding.  It is especially good for long boards.  For small spots I just take a small piece and fold it in half like production paper, but it stays stuck to itself and doesn't slip around.  Or apply it to a foam block, or hard block, or even a dowel

 

http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/plseploboro2.html

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greendane    8

Making headway this week. Opting to fair the front seams and ended up striping back paint all the way forward. New layer of glass now as well as tape down the center. Fill coat done on the front and will fill coat the tape tomorrow. Then some Xynole and fairing and the finally onto the keel. 

 

Not that I won't have more questions, but I'd like to say say thanks to you all. I've learned a lot and couldn't have done this as well without your generous donation of experience and time forming that experience into pixels. Much appreciated!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greendane    8

Public Service Announcement: Confirmed: Xynole takes considerably more epoxy to wet out. Possibly 4X vs glass. But I'm happy with the result. Very sturdy stuff. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Walt S.    14

I might put 1/2"-wide Xynole on the stem.  PAR likes to use epoxy mixed with rock powder on high-abrasion areas, but is also a fan of xynole.  Does it come in a tape? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greendane    8

Hi Walt. I could hardly find the cloth. Defender was the only place that had it in stock. Not sure if they had tape.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PAR    188

Dynel is a modi-acrylic, while Xynole is a polyester fabric. Dynel is about 1/2 as resistant to abrasion as Xynole, though both seem to drink goo at about 3 times their weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thrillsbe    62

I'm making a "lounging panel" for the area forward of my mizzen.  This will allow my first mate to take up her favorite sailing position (horizontal), once we're under way.  I plan to cover it with Dynel, to give me a nice non-skid pattern.  It should be friendlier on her backside than crushed walnut shells!  I'll post a photo when done.  (In a week or so, I hope.)  Off-center Harbor (offcenterharbor.com) has a great video on laminating materials to wood with epoxy resin, including Dynel.  I learned a lot from it, and am anxious to see how it comes out. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greendane    8

Don--I've put two fill coats on the Xynole and it could still use one more. Maybe two. Though they are getting less thirsty with each pass. I've got some fairing compound that I could probably use, but I'm not sure how much I'll need to fair some other parts so I'm going to let the next wet layer for the fairing compound be good enough and go from there. Not sure how Dynel compares to Xynole after paint is on it, but if you want no-skid, this stuff would work. On the other hand, regarding your first mate's backside--Xynole wouldn't feel much different than walnut shells I think. Depends on how much you soften it with fill epoxy and paint I suppose. But I'm only speculating. Very novice at this stuff. But the Xynole is rough.

 

One thing about this project...if I were to build this boat myself, I would take more pains to get it right. Partly because the thought of a well-faired, smooth surface is simply pleasing. If I keep going, I'm never going to get it on the water. It's not going to be roll and tip smooth by any stretch unless I want to pour another 40 hours into this--most of it removing old paint and cleaning up dust. I've had enough of that. Going to cut my keel stock down to size and get it on there so I can start fairing and painting and sailing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thrillsbe    62

Wow, that's a lot of epoxy!  I'm only giving the Dynel one coat before primer and paint.  After all, I'm looking for a textured surface when I'm done.  The good news is that if it doesn't work out, I can throw it away-- it's a removable panel.  But I'll file your experience away in my memory banks, for that Mackenzie River drift boat I'm never going to build.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greendane    8

Here is a pic of the xynole after:

 

1) Wet coat

2) Fill coat

3) Fill coat

 

In the first, you can see the texture still left. In the second, you can see the seam. I might have been able to singe these edges, and should have tried I suppose. But I had a triangular patch and cut across multiple strands. The more I handled it, the worse it got so I left well enough alone. I knocked down a little while the goo was still green. I'll hit it again once it's cured better and then add one more coat of epoxy when I apply the fairing compound. 

xynole fill.jpg

Xynole seam.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PAR    188

When I use these fabrics, I wet it out normally, with neat goo and as soon as it's just barely tacky, I apply a skim coat of thickened goo. I rarely try to use the fabric texture for under foot traction. It doesn't take a lot of foot traffic to wear through the pure resin high spots in the weave and exposed fibers, so I don't try. My prefered method for textured areas is to get the surface fair in the waterway areas, with light weight fillers over the weave, all but ignoring the textured spots initially. Once I'm satisfied with the waterway locations, I tape off for the textured areas and apply a thickened mix with a roller. This puts the texture over the previously well sealed surface and raises up the textured spots, so the waterways can act like waterways and channel off pooling water. It's also much more economical to use thickened epoxy to fill a weave, especially these coarse fabrics, than straight resin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greendane    8

Thanks PAR--in this case, what do you use for thickener and to what consistency? (Ketchup, Mayo, Peanut butter if I may refer to something I read recently)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PAR    188

Consistency is usually application related, Peanutbutter for vertical and overhead surfaces, mayo for inclined areas and ketchup for relatively flat areas, like decks. If you do one side at a time you can cock the boat a little to work in the down hand position and use thinner mixes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greendane    8

I have wood flour but understand that to be limited in application. If I were to get one filler for general use (fastening the keel, filling for fairing as mentioned above) what would you recommend? I just need a little of whatever it is to get through this project so not looking to have a full arsenal on hand for future builds or extensive repairs at this point. I know there are opinions galore on the best recipe--I'm not looking to start a debate or read more on the dozens of options and applications. Honestly, I'm a bit confused about it all simply because there is so much info. I just want adequate so I can get it ordered and get to work. I'm fine if a need two or three options. Besides the wood flour, I have a System Three quick fair kit. Just not sure how much I'll use, and would like to have some kind of filler on hand for adhesion, fillets, and fairing I guess. I'm down to about 1/3 gallon of resin at this point. I think it will get me through but we'll see. B.O.A.T. = Bet on another thousand. I'm trying to make this as untrue as I can...

 

Thanks in advance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PAR    188

I break down thickened epoxy uses into three distinct categories: light and heavy structural (glue, bonding, fillets, etc.) and cosmetic (fairing, decorative fillets and finishing, etc.) The structural stuff needs fibrous filler materials, which also tend to be heavy and hard to sand. The cosmetic stuff uses light weight fillers, for easy sanding. Knowing what the bond, glue of fillet needs to do determines what you'll put in it. As a rule you'll use silica to control viscosity, though many use it for just about everything except fairing, where it's way to hard to sand. Wood flour I use for only color, when trying to hide fillets on brightly finished surfaces. I use a lot of milled fibers, which is a good glue (with some silica) and a very good bonding agent, particularly between dissimilar materials. 

   For the occasional user, I simply recommend using the premixed fairing compounds, such as QuikFair. You just can't beat the consistency in small amounts. As to an all encompassing filler, well there aren't any good answers. They serve so many different roles, you'll need a few bags of different materials. Silica is a must, but talc and cooking flour can also be used, quite cheaply on some stuff. In the end, what you use is application specific.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greendane    8

Thanks for the simple explanation PAR. The three categories is helpful. 

 

So I'm covered for the fairing with the Quick Fair I have. All I have left to do on this project is install the keel. I'll get some silica for that. 

 

I got the stock ripped down tonight and think it will go on just fine. I'll shape the front tomorrow, seal it with some goo and my thickener is supposed to arrive Saturday. Maybe by the end of the weekend I'll have most of the pieces together and can set about fairing next week. 

 

Thanks for your help. I don't take for granted that anyone is sharing experience for free here. And observing my wife, who is an artist working in paints and canvas has taught me one thing you've echoed here: there is a science to this, but also an art and the nuances are important. I remember opening a box of 128 crayola crayons as a kid and being blown away with the possibilities after having been confined to the 8 packs in the beginning. Thanks for your graciousness with my 8-pack questions as I am still pretty wide-eyed about the 128 options with epoxy and boats. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thrillsbe    62

I'm trying it on walkways because

1. It's a removable panel

2. The Brooklin Boat Yard uses it regularly on decks, to give their restorations the look of a canvassed surface.  I figure if they use it, covered with primer and one-part polyurethane, it ought to be OK for my occasionally-used removable panel.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Walt S.    14
On 4/11/2017 at 8:12 PM, Thrillsbe said:

I'm making a "lounging panel" for the area forward of my mizzen.  This will allow my first mate to take up her favorite sailing position (horizontal), once we're under way.  I plan to cover it with Dynel, to give me a nice non-skid pattern.  It should be friendlier on her backside than crushed walnut shells!  I'll post a photo when done.  (In a week or so, I hope.)  Off-center Harbor (offcenterharbor.com) has a great video on laminating materials to wood with epoxy resin, including Dynel.  I learned a lot from it, and am anxious to see how it comes out. 

Do you remember the name of the video? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×