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Rdubs

Spindrift 10N help needed - outboard pad and fwd bulkhead question

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Starboard    2

1. Here are a few photos with the seats removed. I came up with a way to secure the seats with one line and a stopper knot through a bowline. It's keeps them down but they're not really strong enough to grab hold of to right the boat in a capsize or when climbing back in the boat after swimming- I use the centerboard trunk for that.

 

post-4336-0-95097000-1485220562_thumb.jpg

 

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2. I used a long straightedge to figure out what was 'level' in the boat and where to place my blocks, but that was partly based on the plans from B&B. The boat didn't go in the water until it was done. Is it absolutely perfectly level when sitting in the water? I have no idea- it looks pretty good to me, however- besides, level will be different if there's an outboard vs. empty vs. sailing rig.

 

One thing I will say is that there isn't enough flotation forward & high for my liking with the removable forward seats, which is why I'm going to build them in and enclose them at some point in the future. It may weight a little more, but that's OK by me. When the boat is on its side the forward compartment definitely floats, but it's too close to the centerline of the boat to keep the Spindrift up high in the water. The built-in compartments on either side of the bow would probably float it a foot higher and prevent a lot of water from scooping in when you right the boat. The stern flotation compartments are fine so far, but could be extended a little but more if needed. Other dinghys I've sailed have full waterproof compartments along their sides and they don't take on much water when you right them after a capsize.

 

3. The large deckplate in the forward storage are gives pretty good access to that compartment. I have a folding anchor, a long line, and a few other things I can stow in there. It's a pretty good deckplate, I like how easy it is to remove. It leaks a very small amount, but not enough to cause any trouble. I designed a special subframe to distribute the loads of the mast which is a little different from Graham's plans. It is bonded and screwed both to itself but also shaped precisely and also screwed and bonded to the hull as well. I made a custom mast collar from brass instead of wood in the plans. Will this setup take the same loads as the original plans? I'm not really sure, but I don't sail the Spindrift as much as I motor it- most of my sailing is done on the J/24. So far so good, however.

 

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4. It turns out that the sailplan and rigging for the Spindrift are pretty close to that of a Laser, which I already own. I decided to save a lot of time and money and just use my Laser rig. Laser practice sails from Intensity are only $135 and $10 for battens- a true bargain. http://www.intensitysails.com/prsaforla.html A used Laser rig can be purchased on Craigslist for a couple hundred dollars. So rigging the sail is pretty fast for me, and all of the controls and lines on my Spindrift are run the same way I'm used to. Maybe some day I'll build my own rig and sew my own sail, but I doubt it. The fact I could use my Laser gear was one of my main deciding factors for choosing the Spindrift. You can't reef a Laser sail like you can with the one on the plans, but if you find the 'full' laser rig to be overpowered the Laser Radial rig is almost 2 feet shorter. It just uses a shorter lower section (the Laser mast is in two pieces) and a lot of people have both rigs and two sails since it's just one different piece.

 

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The limited rowing I've done has been fine where the seat is positioned. If anything the seat feels a little high to the oarlocks- the oars hit my knees sometimes. I'm not much of a rower, however, so I don't know what a great setup would be.

 

 

 

 

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Rdubs    1

Starboard thank you very much!  You have quite a nice boat.  Question about using the Laser rig - I looked at that but was worried it was way overpowered.  I think the Laser is a 14' boat and built for racing - the mast height looked huge and the boom itself is as long as the Spindrift 10 is by itself.  I saw the mast comes in two sections so maybe there is a way to use just the lower one, but you still have the super long boom.  But it sounds like you got yours to work well with the 10N?

 

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Rdubs    1

Also everyone progress on the boat is coming along well.  A few general question:

1) I am just using relatively inexpensive marine-grade plywood (fir I think), so between that and being conservative I want to glass the entire exterior.  Is it best to glass the outside hull before or after cutting the boat in half?

2) In general, when is the best time to cut the boat in half?  Right now I have the mast collar installed, front bulkhead installed, but no aft seats nor daggerboard trunk.  Can I install the aft seats just using the measurements from the plans, or is it better to wait until making the big cut so you can customize the aft seat dimensions based on the true lines of the bow section?

3) Need some help figuring out the approach to the centerboard trunk.  It sounds like the plans might want you to assemble the trunk pieces first, then install in the boat.  However, on the B&B website construction gallery, it looks like they installed one side of the trunk, probably cut out the hole in the bottom, then installed the other.  (Sorry, can't seem to get the IMG insert thing to work with these pictures below)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ziI9Y8b4HMF0yXFmpic7P9DaFQyCjFK4vpxZOhzOCV7pq_vh2Bvoi5OoZDTiFUjVQSfzdYE7tjs36xA-4WqhSqW-lPveG5m_lJXIzg=w293-h220-rw

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/I4hPisje77N2v0GVbFTYPVLvK74CfhVjiNb2BDJ5ciUpULSYgUvzGz1Vq39ggDoVtnsYpi9jtqsUZhyxSaq6ifX0EvYdeBDDl3WKrg=w1920-h1080-rw-no

4) In the B&B photo gallery, I just saw a nesting Spindrift where it looks like the builder installed permanent side seats like Starboard described.  What is the best way to build some strength in so the seats can support a little weight?  I imagine you will want to install stringers along the top interior like the aft seats, but do you also need to do stringers along the bottom where the plywood meets the hull?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZLz-6jiA4PLCl7dkoAzkm2h6DiY3sr-nKKTQnxx2A8MZJcbK-f9H3MY5fmV2tZ9OLJsMbaJOHa0xoDku0KvZIjnrDbJfzg-i_gSwUA=w314-h220-rw

5) On the aft seats, I see there are stringers running along the top of the vertical plywood pieces.  But are there also similar stringers installed at the bottom, at the corner of where the vertical plywood meets the hull?  

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HoOE-zNdpHJK8biGyVt4gYHeItviskKMtGN-Fh7-sdHamjdOFcML5jUhSGM60YcpmntMOU-KwZ28KVfLqDeCqUuW4dsMJp_9rJq2Ww=w329-h220-rw

Many thanks.  

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Rdubs    1

Apologies for doing this but...bump.  After a good run of progress I am stuck a bit trying to figure out the questions above.  Summary version:

1) When is the best time to cut the boat in half?  I need to glass the whole hull exterior, is it better to make the cut prior to glassing the hull or afterwards?

2) Is it best to use the aft seat dimensions in the plans, or wait until you make the cut to make sure the aft seat dimensions will clear the bow section when nested?

3) What's the best way to tackle the centerboard trunk?  Build the trunk assembly fully then mount it in the boat, or build half of it installed like shown in the B&B website pictures?

4) I think I figured this one out.

5) Looks like stringers only are used at the top of the aft seat frames.  Is regular 1/4" plywood the best to use for the aft seat surfaces (the permanent corner seats), or should you use hard wood like the center seat?

Here is pic of current status.  Thank you all for helping me get this far.  It's not perfect, especially at the forward bulkhead, but it looks like a boat.

s10n1.jpg

s10n2.jpg

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Hirilonde    168

1. I think the plans cover this, but I did it when all interior components that make the hull rigid were in and it was time to move on to the exterior.  There is no such thing as too late, eventually you will have no choice but to do it.

2. You cam make the cleats for the seat/flotation and dry fit them first to be sure.  But if you do it accurately you will find Graham is quite exacting in dimensions given.

3. Not to be a smart-ass, but the boat doesn't have a centerboard trunk.  When in doubt, follow the instructions.

5. Regular plywood is never a good choice for any component and any wide boards could cause expansion/contraction issues when bonded to other components.  I recommend BS 1088 as do the plans.

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Chick Ludwig    110

Hey, Dave...

3. Ya mean it's actually a "dagger" board trunk?

4. Well, my take on this: It's always best to use good plywood such as the 1088, BUT, I've used various other plywoods in the past. Problem with fir is that it doesn't look purty when varnished, and it's hard to get a smooth surface without ripples. On a small boat like this, the strength isn't a big deal, and since it's all epoxy coated, expansion/contraction issues shouldn't be a problem.  If it's glassed over on the outside, that will hide the ripples.

Don't wanna fight about all this, just expressing my humble opinion. These days, I have decided that for me, I'll go to the expense and trouble to find/get the 1088 Okoume. But for others, I don't condemn fir, pine, or even luan underlayment (where strength isn't needed, and it is actually exterior---test first). I've seen some mighty fine boats made with all of these.

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PAR    188

I've seen Douglas fir check under 6 ounce (200 gsm) cloth, still making ripples and fairing difficult in spite of encapsulation. BS-1088 Okoume is nice stuff, but BS-6566 Meranti is nearly as nice, for a significant price reduction and if electing to use exterior grades, try to find Meranti (lauan) as it's much less likely to check and ripple when smoothed. The advantage of Okoume is it's strength to weight ratio, which in small craft can be notable, particularly if it's performance oriented.

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Starboard    2

Your Spindrift looks great so far, keep up the good work!

I cut my Spindrift before I did much to the interior. The outer hull shape was pretty much defined by then and didn't change much after that. It was also important to know exactly how much space I had for the aft benches/flotation chambers- the tolerances on my boat are very tight. I don't think I did a full fiberglass layer on the outside of the hull- just tape on the seams.

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Moment of truth!

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I made templates for the aft benches out of foam core and cardboard, and installed the stringers before the flat panels.

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I could then make templates for the removable benches.

I built the daggerboard box in one piece to make sure it fit the daggerboard properly, and I cut the hole as close to the actual size of the daggerboard before I installed the box. You can also see the hole for the Andersen bailer.

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Rdubs    1

Many thanks Hirilonde.

On the centerboard trunk, I think technically the boat has a daggerboard so it would be a daggerboard trunk.  But for some reason the plans in more place than one call it a centerboard so I figured best to stay consistent with the terminology as Graham knows a little more than me about boat design.  But still would like to know what the best approach to installing it is - the plans seem to call for to build the trunk first then mount the whole assembly in, but there are pictures in the construction gallery showing a build where half the trunk is installed and mounted in before the other side is put on.  So I am trying to follow the directions, but the directions seem to be conflicting with the construction gallery on the B&B site and not sure which approach is better.

 

 

IMG_0022.JPG

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Rdubs    1

Thank you for the replies everyone!  For some reason I just received word that some were posted.

Chuck, PAR - the reason I went with the inexpensive marine plywood was twofold: 

1) the cheapest price I could get on BS1088 was about $150/panel (plus an extra hundred or so in shipping), and I tried quotes for Meranti too but it was only a little lower and I'd get beat to death on shipping.  A lumber provider near me could get the regular marine plywood for $50/sheet, almost free delivery, so there was a huge price delta.  Since this was my first build, I didn't want to be too afraid of making an expensive mistake so the cheaper plywood helped me be less concerned about getting it wrong.  Plus, I am partly building the boat for my six year old daughter and if she gave it the thumbs-down I'd be happier knowing there was less investment in it.

2) As part of trying to get my little girl excited in it I told her she can paint the boat whatever color she wants when it's done.  So wasn't too concerned about having that great finished look you get from the more quality woods.

Starboard, have a question for you (really the question applies to anyone who assembled a non-nesting Spindrift).  The stringer for the forward seat compartments which goes outboard and is glued to the interior surface of the side hull, how does one keep it pressed up against the side of the hull for the epoxy to dry?  My clamps, which are pretty big, only go down a few inches; the stringers for the forward add-in seats (really flotation chambers) would sit much lower.  You can see on a regular Spindrift the outboard stringer at the top left of this picture, somehow they must have kept it pressed up against the side to take hold.

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/109621697666101332150/album/AF1QipNvq839usxvezgSsBnKa8SqcOb2-hzMgKTIG9mC/AF1QipPBkkRj3s9p6WMYM-J4YbwpFbOqEY4WxCzKNCdH?authKey=CJXw19iGpLa55wE

Again many thanks.

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Hirilonde    168

I built my Spindrift 10 years ago and my plans are on loan to a friend for study as he tries to decide if and what to build.  That, and I forgot what I did  :P

Everything logic and my experience with my Lapwing tell me to make the board, make the trunk to fit the finished board, then install.  Make sure you clamp up the final assembly of the trunk on a really true flat surface.  Any twist will ruin your day, or even longer.  As to terminology many here know me to tease on the subject.  I grew up a few years ago reading books like "Two Years Before the Mast" and I have worked as a professional marine carpenter.  It is also a matter sometimes of communication, and the proper word can often make the difference in people understanding. It also presents a challenge that in this section of the forum we are discussing modern methods where components don't necessarily match the ones the terms were coined to represent.  This means that sometimes it is really important to make sure descriptions are clear if others are to understand enough to actually help.  Numbered questions help for me.

No matter how often I find discussions about materials I come to the same conclusion:  I live in one of the best places to find wood and plywood there is, and I sometimes forget that others are not so fortunate.  I have real lumber yards near by and never resort to big box stores.  I even have access to local saw mills.

I will be giving my Spindrift to my grandson at some point if it appears he has a desire to really learn.  I will let him choose the new color when I do.

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Starboard    2

I haven't installed curved stringers like that yet, so it's a question I have as well. I shaped the aft stringers with a plane, so in fact they weren't bent, they were a perfect fit. I could easily do the same for the forward stringers if I simply cut up the forward seats which are already pretty close to the correct shape, or I could cut strips and bend them like others have done. I'd like to avoid putting screws through the painted exterior hull seeing as how this is a retrofit.

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Chick Ludwig    110

Rdubs, that was the point I was bumbling around trying to make. Cheaper wood is fine if that's what you can get and are satisfied with it. Others have complained about my use of Poplar for all of my hardwood on my boats, but it is available and cheap where I am. Ruel Parker, in The Sharpie Book discussed the use of various pine and fir plywood and says it's fine. And that's on large and small boats.

The only place I think that you shouldn't use it would be in canoes and kayaks that require 1/8" (I don't think in metric) good quality plywood that will take the bends and provide the strength needed. I used to get 1/8 inch "doorskins" at Lowe's which was terrible. Weak and fell apart as soon as it got wet! I've also used the 1/4 inch underlayment  in non-structural areas that stay dry, and I was perfectly happy with it. Of course It is all epoxy coated. I'm thinking of building a 16 foot "cruising garvey" for cruising the mountain lakes. It will be powered by my 4-stroke Tohatsu. The hull and deck will be pine ply from a local "big box store", and the cabin, interior, and hatches will be from the underlayment ply, also from my local "box store". this boat will have a layer of glass on the hull, decks, and cabin. It will be stored on a trailer under a tarp.  Oh yeah, epoxy glue for structural hull and deck, but Tight Bond III for interior joinery and such. Fastened where necessary with decking screws.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' with it. So there!!!

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Thrillsbe    62

Maybe it's a downunder thing?  My Bay River Skiff plans call the interior strip of wood that runs down the center a "keel batten".  I thought it was called a keelson, at least in the midwest USA.  Looks like a daggerboard to me.

 

I built my first boat out of lumberyard fir exterior plywood.  (It was back in the days when they had not yet invented Okoume/Gabon wood.)  She was built in about 1996, and was coated with two coats of West epoxy. She was stored indoors most of the time, or outdoors, covered.  By 2008, she was checking badly.  I sanded and filled, and painted with Britesides.  She's checking again.  If I were to do it again with fir, I would sheath everything with 4 oz cloth.  On the other hand, she's 20 years old. We could do the Viking burial thing, but it was a father-son project.  My little boy (now 39) is attached to the little dink.  

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Rdubs    1

Hi all

Progress has been slow for a while but finally nearing the end.  Thought I would post a helpful tip I came up with, at least helpful to me, in case it helps others.  I had been trying to figure out for a while what the best way to do the fillets on all the joints was, since even with thickener in the epoxy it still sags and runs over the time it takes to dry.  I tried to use packaging tape to force the resin into position, but that got real messy and it would always leak.  Then I figured it out: Beach the hulls at an angle, and use gravity to form the fillet angles and fill in any crevices.  The hulls look like they are shipwrecked but in reality just forming some really nice joints:

 

IMG_03451.jpg

 

Then when dry I will flip it and do the other side.  The fillets don't have that really nice arc/curved look, but I was concerned more with structural strength and this method makes it so much easier to deal with.  I ended up not using any thickener on most of the seams, the only place I really had to use thickener was at the bow seat because it was far from a horizontal angle needed to make the gravity method work.  Unfortunately from this angle you can't really see what joints I was trying to fillet, most are the ones covered by the hull.

 

Oh one thing also in case it may help any newcomers here, when you go to buy thickener for your resin, be sure to understand that there is a difference between silica and microspheres.  The containers look almost identical:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/System-Three-3105S16-Silica-Thickener/dp/B013K2WU9S

 

https://smile.amazon.com/System-Three-3145S16-White-Microspheres/dp/B00W90R2CS

 

But serve much different purposes.  The Silica thickener is really the one you want for structural uses - it maintains the strength of the epoxy better.  The Microspheres are more designed for smoothing and cosmetics, kind of like Bondo for car repairs.  The Microspheres make it very easy to sand the resin and fair it, whereas the Silica dries pretty tough.  The white lines you see on my boat is from when (a few months ago) I accidentally ordered the Microspheres, didn't catch the difference, used it anyway, and now I'm hoping that there's enough strength to provide the strength needed to keep the seats secure.  So stay away from Microspheres, at least for any structural needs.  

 

'Dubs

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Chick Ludwig    110

I', wondering why your fillets were sagging. Only two things come to mind.

   1. You used microspheres or Q-cell as a filler.

   2. You did use silica or Cabosil, but didn't mix it thick enough. If it sags in your mixing container, it is too thin.

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Rdubs    1

Hi all,

Wondering what your thoughts are on a good, basic, budget paint.  I don't see this boat getting a lot of use, so I don't need something expensive that can withstand harsh saltwater elements as if I was using it as a tender to a cruise in the Caribbean.  Rather, this one is likely to be used a couple times a month on a fresh-water lake.  I did some research about what good paints are for dinghys and a lot of folks ended up just using porch / patio paint and they were happy with it.  I found some that looks decent at Home Depot:

 

IMG_03701.jpg

 

But, it says you're supposed to use a primer with it.  That seems like overkill for what I need and the use it would see, is a primer really necessary?  Any other good economical alternatives that don't need a primer?

Thanks.

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